BritishV8 Forum

General Category => Triumph Sports Cars => Topic started by: bsa_m21 on March 09, 2013, 10:40:55 AM

Title: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on March 09, 2013, 10:40:55 AM
This winter in blustery and snowy Canada I am trying to finish everything I need to get my TR7V8 beastie back on the road by end of this May if not before (been 4yrs +).

Done previously:
1. Bought & rebuilt, ported, cammed and tweaked - 3.9L V8 Rover engine, Edelbrock intake & carb
2. Rebuilt and new suspension and running gear
3. Big brakes up front, rebuilt at back
4. Stiffen the body and reinforced the rear swing arm mounts
5. Build custom bolt on wheel arches
6. 16" Mags and 215/55-16 tires (might have to go down a size on the front as they rub at full lock)
7. Built a pocket into and sank battery into trunk.
8. Sorted out radiator & fans, oil cooler, engine wiring, etc.
9. TSI headers into custom 2-1 collector, hand built 2.5" exhaust with resonator and muffler (sounds awesome!)
10. Way more other stuff than I can remember, but have receipts and bruises for.... :(

A few pictures:

Porting, early on:
2009_02.jpg

Engine Assembly:
2010_01.jpg

Engine on Frame:
2010_04.jpg
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on March 09, 2013, 10:44:34 AM
More Pics:

Custom Front Disk Brakes and Suspension
2010_06.jpg

Mounted to sub-frame
2011_07.jpg

Engine finally back in the body
2011_08.jpg

Exhaust built and rear suspension back in
2011_09.jpg

Martin
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on March 09, 2013, 10:52:42 AM
I bought the front air dam and arch extensions from S&S in England and had them shipped over, but didn't like any rear ones that I could find, so decided to make my own.

Designing/creating rear wheel arch extensions:
P1000551-2048.jpg

Pass side rear arch plug in progress:
2012_03.jpg

Drivers side, finished rear arch "plug":
2012_05.jpg

Mounted Arches
100_4075-2048.jpg

The rear arches were built last summer and fall.  If I had had any idea the amount of effort and time and money to build them, I should have just gone out and bought some ready made ones.  :)

Martin
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on March 09, 2013, 11:04:53 AM
This past fall I've:

1. Finished body work & prep for paint, and sent the car out for painting
    (I know my limitations  :)
2012_12.jpg

2. Rebuild headlight raise/lower brackets

3. Refinished taillight shells
100_4097-2048.jpg

4. Converted Mercedes C230 seats to fit in TR7v8 & wired custom switches (they're electric!)
100_4062-2048.jpg
100_4067-2048.jpg
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on March 09, 2013, 11:21:13 AM
Wiring the converted Mercedes seats:
100_4126-2048.jpg

Used switches from an old Merc that was sitting in a junk yard and mounted them into the plastic shell side cover.
100_4131-2048.jpg

The finished product:
100_4133-2048.jpg
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on March 09, 2013, 11:25:01 AM
I rebuilt the door cards, reglued the vinyl, replaced the inner window seals & tacked on new plastic backing (keeps moisture off the carboard door card frame).

Then I dyed everything vinyl & leather in the interior to the same shade of light tan.

100_4167-2048.jpg

100_4166-2048.jpg

The dye I chose is fairly close to the colour of the soft top.
100_4128-2048.jpg

M.
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on March 09, 2013, 11:29:31 AM
Currently in progress are:
1. Polishing the stainless parts of the luggage rack & getting the pot metal brackets re-chromed.
2. Powder coat various trim, brackets, softtop frame and other bits black - out at coating firm
3. Painting - Finishing and priming the body and fender extensions

2013_01_15.jpg

100_4109-2048.jpg

2013_02_10.jpg
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on March 09, 2013, 11:33:11 AM
More Paint - a metallic reddish bronze colour (proper British spelling!) that my wife selected.  (SWMBO....)

2013_02_15.jpg

2013_02_20.jpg

The headlight pod, seats and soft top header (still to be dyed)

2013_02_21.jpg

M.
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on March 09, 2013, 11:40:10 AM
Yesterday (March 8), I got back the fender arches and front air dam to attach rubber trim edging and prevent damage to the body when I bolt them on:

2013_03_07-1.jpg

2013_03_07-2.jpg

2013_03_07-3.jpg

Getting close to being able to re-assemble the car now...!!

Still to do:

1. Next week, I hope to have the rest of the paint done.
    Then I have to install the new windshield and wait for the snow to melt to bring the car home.
    (come on come on come on ......)
2. Install the new carpet, replace lights, dash, interior
3. Replace dash clock with electric oil gauge (in progress)
4. Install new convertible top on the powdercoated frame.
5. Install & hook up the electric seats
6. Possibly think about in electric windows and locks.... (Oy!)
7. Keep SWMBO placated.... (not necessarily in this order.. :)

Martin
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on March 09, 2013, 03:02:17 PM
I've been told to enter this:

"SWMBO checking in:  
I need to have access to this posting so that I can add my comments!  
SWMBO needs placation right now!  
You............poop! :)"

M.
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: tr8todd on March 10, 2013, 08:26:59 AM
Looks great.  Aren't these things fun to restore.  How much higher, if at all, are those seats?  TR8 seats sit so low, it's difficult to find anything else that sits low enough with a proper slider mechanism.  I've had good luck with Recaros sourced from an early 80s BMW 320is.  You can fit 225s and even 245s on the rear simply by rolling the fender lips.  Take a hammer and slowly roll the lips back up and flush with the outer lip.  When that's done, you can continue to pull the whole lip out another inch or so if you continue to pound away.  On the cars I really want a wide tire under, I roll the lip then grab a 5 pound sledge and keep pounding away until the lip on the fender bends slightly out instead of slightly inwards.  Takes about 10 to 15 minutes per corner then some light body work to smooth everything back out.  Not a big deal if you are going to paint the car anyway.  Here is a picture of a car I started fender rolling and body work on last fall, and a picture of my green car sporting 225/45/16s.  
DSC02926.JPG
DSC03190.JPG
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on March 10, 2013, 12:16:59 PM
Thanks Todd.

The lips are rolled, both front and back, and I also bent the rear bottom edges of the front wheel arch into the main body to get a bit more clearance on turns. The rears clear ok (as long as they don't expand too much at speed). But, I think the front tires will turn out to be one size too big, as I have felt them rub occasionally on turns while moving the car.  I'll have to get it onto the road with the full weight settling the springs, to be sure.

Rear Clearance at full droop:
P1000538-3000-2048.jpg

Front Clearance at full droop:
P1000587-2048.jpg

The seat bases are almost the same height as the originals ones, and it is easy to adjust the height later if need be. Left is stock Mercedes, middle is my converted seat, right is stock TR7 with a lousy recover job.  The seat back is a fair bit higher, but the convertible top still clears fine on raise/lower.
100_4053-2048.jpg

I mounted them to the TR7 runners, so the forward/aft movement is now manual.  The back recline and headrests remain electricly operated and the seats are also heated (My SWMBO is pleased about that!).

The right seat is stock Mercedes, the left one is how I mounted it.  It is a bit hard to see, but the rear of the seat sits on springs on the then non-painted brackets I made.  The front sits on pedestels bolted to the grey pivot rod.  I had to bend the seat track release arm a bit, to fit around the pivot rod, but that was it.

100_4058-2048.jpg
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on March 10, 2013, 12:34:21 PM
Pivot pedestal:
100_4061-2048.jpg

Trial fitting in the car:
100_4068-2048.jpg

Martin
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: tr8todd on March 10, 2013, 05:25:05 PM
The TR7 sliders are great.  I've used them in all sorts of cars including three different race cars.  By cutting the lever and rewelding, you can widen or narrow the track width.  They are so short that you can weld on a cross brace a to mount just about any seat onto.  How much heavier are the Mercedes seats?  That seems to be the only draw back on the Recaros I have.  I'd venture that the Recaros are twice as heavy as the TR7 seat before lightness was added because the seat back is made from metal.
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on March 11, 2013, 08:42:29 AM
Todd,

If anything, the Merc seats are lighter than the stock TR7 seats, real leather and waaaay better support. :)

M.
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: mgbreis on March 14, 2013, 10:30:11 AM
Very, very nice Martin! A TR7 v8 conversion is something that would definitely interest me. Our local club does about 3 autocrosses a summer, and after participating about 4-5 times, I'm kind of hooked. There is a guy in our club who has a TR7 that demonstrates routinely that aside from any debate about its looks (which I like, by the way) the TR7 is WAY ahead of the rest of the classic brits in the suspension department. Watching an mgb and TR7 autocross is pretty revealing in the differences in track width, strut suspension and IRS.
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on March 14, 2013, 01:25:08 PM
Thanks Ryan.

Only real weak point, if you pick up a TR7 to convert, are the rear axle 4-link mounting points on the body.  They are fairly weak to begin with, and the lower ones are in a location that tends to rust really badly.  Most guys that do any suspension work, first reinforce them by welding plates around the mounts and tieing them further back onto the body.  Then replace the bushings with polybushes and away you go.

Also, the stock springs are quite soft, but can be upgraded easily.

Lots of info is available online.  Also, two good sources for speed parts www.thewedgeshop.com and www.tsimportedautomotive.com.

Regards,

Martin
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on April 06, 2013, 07:45:55 PM
Well I got her back from the paint shop a few days ago, and naturally was so excited I started assembling without taking pictures.  Duh!  Anyhow, today the weather was relatively nice up here in freezing Canada (+4c), so I backed her onto the driveway to continue assembling and did remember to take a few pics today.

Got the doors aligned, tail lights mounted, 1/4 rail for soft top riveted on, and this morning I bolted on the wheel arch flares.

100_4178-2048.jpg

100_4180-2048.jpg
(Notice the bit of ice still unmelted on the left side of the picture)

100_4181-2048.jpg
I fabricated the rear arches myself.  If I had any idea how difficult it was going to be I would have just gone out and bought some.  

100_4182-2048.jpg
I still have to finish and remount the bumpers (which are very heavy) , but I think my modified suspension will still sit too high.  Once I get everything else done I may have to take a coil or so out of the springs.

Shortly after these pics the weather started to close in and my flu decided to re-emerge with a vengence, so after the first minor paint scrape, stopped for the day.


Martin
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on April 06, 2013, 07:53:12 PM
I pulled her into the garage and shut it down for the day.

100_4183-2048.jpg

Hopefully I will feel up to working on her tomorrow.

Martin
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: BWA on April 07, 2013, 04:49:20 PM
Martin your project is looking real good!!  Yes you spent a lot of time on those arches but they look real good and you now have bragging rights!!
I have a couple of questions for you:
Where did you get the dye/spray? to color your vinyl upholstery and what brand is it?  I am refurbishing my 76 TR6 and the old tan seats will not match the GM Victory red that I am painting the car.  I think the color you used on your seats would the right color for mine.
You mentioned that your suspension in the back is too high and the possibility of removing a coil to lower it.  If you remove a coil from the spring does it change the stiffness of the spring?  What do you do about the issue of the cut coil not having a "flat" to sit on the spring pad?

Cheers
Byron
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on April 07, 2013, 09:25:46 PM
Thanks for the kind words Bryon.  

The dye I used is from Parasol Inc. (www.parasolinc.com).  I took in my new soft top and had him match the color.    My soft top color is "Leather Textured Bisque Vinyl"  (www.topsonline.com/fabric.html?img=18  and www.topsonline.com/model/Convertible_Tops_And_Accessories/Triumph/1979_thru_1981_Triumph_TR7_And_TR8_Roadster.html).  The Parasol dye batch lot is WV-VKL Varikolor A13-06k.  Works on leather and vinyl.  Nice people.  Happy to work with you to match what you want..  

For my front end, I will modify the lower strut legs with adjustable perches (which I have already).  For the rear end, I'm not sure what I will do yet.  Stock rear springs are 166lbs/in x 10.2" long and are supposed to be compressed to 8" when mounted.  I've put on rear springs from a 99 Mitsubishi Eclipse which are 195lbs/in x 10.5" long.  I didn't measure the mounted length, but my new KYB rear shocks are also a bit longer than original, so it likely isn't sitting as compressed as it should be.  Taking a coil out changes the spring rate a bit (makes it stiffer), but I'd have to do the calc's to know by how much. So much fun :)

Didn't feel very well today (stupid flu), and the weather was iffy, so only mounted the other headlight and played with some sheet metal trying to figure out what to do for a fresh air intake for the cabin (through the heater box), as the new engine is set back and prevents me using the stock fresh air intake plenum.  I've made a blanking plate for the opening.  Need to make an some kind of an adapter for a 2" or 3" hose to the front of the rad.  Better go and get the hose tomorrow before I mess it up.  Might look for an aluminum or chrome tube from a cheap cold air intake kit for some Jap scrap to make it look nice.

Lights in:
P1010706-2048.jpg

Engine bay:
P1010700-2048.jpg

Fresh air intake opening:
P1010701-2048.jpg

M.
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on April 28, 2013, 11:20:22 PM
Been slowing completing the re-assembly:

100_4191-2048.jpg

Interior is going in now:
100_4194-2048.jpg

Electric door locks and windows:
100_4238-2048.jpg

Interior mostly in, now time to start on the wiring.
100_4241-2048.jpg

M.
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on April 28, 2013, 11:27:10 PM
Doors complete:
100_4243-2048.jpg

Wiring the door lock and window switches:
100_4244-2048.jpg
100_4245-2048.jpg
I used one of the window switches for the door lock switch. Drivers side upper switch is door lock.  Lower and pass side are for windows.

Starting to figure out the alarm and remote system.  Oy!
100_4246-2048.jpg

Amazing how long it takes to get everything right.  Test fit, take it apart, another fit, scratch it (damn!), finally get it right.  :)

Hopefully will have the wiring done and dash in by mid week.  (Hope springs eternal).  Then it's put in the windshield and bumpers and take her out for the maiden test drive!

M.
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: Dan B on April 29, 2013, 11:21:53 AM
Where did you get the power windows and door locks?  Are they TR7/8 specific or generic?
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on April 29, 2013, 01:59:24 PM
Both the power lock and window mechanisms are generic from the orient and were sourced locally (Toronto, Canada).  

$70 for the window kit with 3 switches, relays and multi door adapters.  The same kit is on ebay for $60 (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/car-front-2-doors-Universal-Power-Window-Kits-Switches-/230589647557?pt=Car_Audio_Video&hash=item35b036cac5&vxp=mtr).  Only mod I had to do on the door, was to drill and physically pin the adapter to the stock window actuating rod with a screw.  I also cut up the harness and modded to suit my center console switch install.

Door locks were from a local job shop (princessauto.ca) at $7 ea.

Relatively easy overall install and they work great.

M.
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: rtope on May 14, 2013, 06:17:02 PM
Looks Great and I'll bet you will enjoy the heck out of it.
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: triumph10 on June 12, 2013, 12:03:41 AM
looks awesome what shade of green is the one on the rack?
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: Peter Evans on June 15, 2013, 03:43:49 AM
Nice car hope mine will shine like that soon lol.  I'm building a tr8 rally replica but the problem I have is that the engine is sitting high cant close bonnet it's got a tr8 subframe should I change the mounts on the v8? As I'm using the rover sd1 mounts also does the sump need to be modified hope you can help my email is pvbs1261@aol.com I'm located South Wales u.k. Thanks peter
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on June 18, 2013, 08:32:59 AM
Peter,

If you can't close the bonnet, its likely you left out the spacers on the subframe.  You can always add extra spacers if need be.  Check a TR8 patrts book and manual to see what is needed.  I'm not familiar with SD1 engine mounts, but replica TR8 mounts are available, cheap and sit the engine quite low in the cradle.  

Re the sump - what vehicle did your engine come from?  An SD1 sump should be fine.  A Rover one will need to be modified or replaced.

Best of luck!

M.
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on June 25, 2013, 11:18:44 AM
Well, she is finished and on the road now.  All I can say is whoo hoo!  What a blast.  Hugely powerful engine, tight suspension, good rubber, good lookin.  I'm a happy boy.
P1010775Custom.JPG
P1010768Custom.JPG
P1010766Custom.JPG
P1010765Custom.JPG
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on June 25, 2013, 11:20:37 AM
Rover 3.9L V8, 10.5:1 compression, ported, Erson Cam, Edelbrock 1404, 4-2-1 headers into 2-1 collector and 2.75 OD single exhaust.  A lovely rumbling idle and roars under accelleration.
P1010774Custom.JPG
The aluminum pipe and flex hose is for the fresh air intake to the passenger cabin.  The stock unit wouldn't fit as the engine is too far back.
P1010773Custom.JPG
Seats from a Mercedes CS230, on TR7 seat rails.  Fit like a glove and very comfortable.  
P1010769Custom.JPG
P1010772Custom.JPG
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on June 25, 2013, 11:26:10 AM
Custom fitted oil pressure gauge in old analog clock location (upper left of instrument cluster).  Switches in lower arms of centre console for power windows & door locks.
P1010771Custom.JPG

Clarion radio and media player (usb & sd card reader built in).  USB power take off added at bottom of center console to left of alarm warning light.
P1010770Custom.JPG
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: Dan B on June 25, 2013, 02:29:20 PM
Nice job, the car looks great!  I am sure you are having a ton of fun with it.  Which Clarion model stereo did you use and did you need to do anything special to get it to fit?  That center console is not very deep.  I currently have a $50 open box CD radio in mine and it sticks out.
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on June 25, 2013, 05:48:43 PM
Thanks Dan,

The radio is an Cdn$80 Clarion "1/2 din" FZ150 multimedia player.  No CD/DVD, so it can be 1/2 normal depth.  http://www.clarion.com/ca/en/products/2013/audio/source_units/digital_media_receiver/index.html

I cut the bottom 1/3" of the stock radio opening and glued it along the top of the opening.  This enabled me to mount the radio completely flush. I have an AC heater box which takes up more space than the non-ac one.  If I had used the non-ac heater box I wouldn't have needed to cut the console.

100_4248-2048.jpg

M.
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: Dan B on June 26, 2013, 10:08:40 AM
Mine has AC too.  Was the radio depth the issue that required lowering it, or was it something else?  Specs online say that radio is on 3 1/4" deep.

I really like the way you handled the fresh air vent.
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on June 26, 2013, 02:08:17 PM
With the AC box and a non-modified console, it will still not sit flush.  

The issue is that DIN sizes are too thick for the TR's, as well as normally too deep.  Although it is a 1/2 DIN and 3.25" deep, it is still 2" thick.  The old cassette radios that fit were a bit over 1" thick (I have one kicking around somewhere).  The combination of the new unit's thickness and the shape of the console mean it will still sit at an angle to the console, with the bottom edge sticking out.  I didn't like that so I modified the console.

To see the angle it would sit, take a rigid ruler and slide it in along the top edge of the console opening, 3.25" and lean it up against the AC unit.  Viewed from the side, you will see the angle the unit will sit.  

FYI - I chose the Clarion unit as it has a bit of a retro look that fits well with the car.  Everything else 1/2DIN that I found had way too much LED and flashing doodahs for my taste.

M.
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: triumph10 on July 06, 2013, 10:45:03 AM
beautiful car great job !!
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: MGBV8 on July 07, 2013, 08:23:34 AM
QuoteRover 3.9L V8, 10.5:1 compression

What kind of pistons did you use?
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on July 07, 2013, 11:28:43 PM
Pistons?

I used Rover 4.0L, +20over, 9.35:1 pistons.  I have a 3.9 - 2 bolt block which has been slightly decked to make sure it was true. I changed the heads for Rover 4.0L heads and used the 3.9L tin gaskets. This bumps the compression.  

3.9L head is 36cc, 4.0L head is 28cc.  
Composite gasket is 0.048" (1.2mm) and tin is 0.018" (0.45mm).
This gives me a bit less than 10.5:1 compression.
 
Compression test shows about 170-180psi across the board.

Regards,

M.
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: Dan B on October 04, 2013, 03:01:55 PM
How are those Prelude springs working out so far?
Title: Re: TR7 V8 Conversion and Modification
Post by: bsa_m21 on October 05, 2013, 09:54:46 AM
The combination of Spax shocks and 97 Prelude front springs (360lb) are quite good.  Little front end dive under hard braking and relatively comfortable drive.  I am going to try the rear springs from the kit (300lb) next spring, but have to modify the spring perches this winter as the springs are 3" longer and will make the car sit too high otherwise.

The rear springs are a different story.  They came from a 99 Mitsubishi Eclipse (190lb).  I had to cut 1.5 rings from them to get the car to sit at the right height. This should have increased their capacity to about 220lbs.  However, with new KYB rear shocks, I find them to be too soft when driving with the wife (small) and dog (big) sharing the passenger side.  The extra weight causes them to compress too much at speed when hitting bumps in the road.  They don't bottom out, but you can sure feel it.  Will have to look for some 300lb springs for the rear.

Martin