Have a question about the front suspension from Fast Cars http://www.fastcarsinc.com/ifs.htm. I have in my 1980 MGB Pete Mantels conversion 302 V8 and looking to upgrade it. Any thoughts? Will the 302 engine mounts line up or will the engine have to be moved? I am sure a have a lot more questions.....
I can't imagine that there would be a significant disparity in location between Pete's and Ted's engine location - the 302 pretty well seeks it's own location in the space available. If you decide to buy Ted's suspension, then the engine location will be well thought out.
Give Pete a call - he's familiar with both setups.
I'm still batting around if I want to spend all that money and pull the engine to install the front suspension from Fast Cars. I did find this in the Moss catalog has any one used this before?
Thanks
http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=37957
Installing my Moss kit right now with a set of Dropped spindles from John Tagett. Too soon for me to comment on anything except the installation. I do hope it ends up being worth the effort. If you go this route I would also try one of the caster reduction kits. As far as installation goes ignore the mutiple holes moss tell you to drill and use a 1 3/4" hole saw. Makes for a nice clean cut and takes less time. I chose to drop the whole sub frame but that was not so smart after all. I figured would be easier to drill and assmble but to get the front sub frame bolts done up again you cant have te coil over in place. So effectivly I had to reinstall the bare subframe and then reassemble the new suspension in situe. PIA.
If you also want big brakes you might get more cost/bennifit from the complete front end kits of Fast Cars or Classic Conversion. As I already had 4 piston calipers I went the Moss route. Also needed new lower control arms, inner pivots and finally a kingpin set so I savde very little in the proccess besides the cost of brakes. If you go with the moss kit keep Moss UK in mind as they had 20% off last fall and shipping was less than $100 for 22kg via air from UK! Arrived in 2 days also. Curtis has also used this setup, maybe he will be able to give greater feedback on how the car handles now.
Yes, it's on a number of cars in the gallery and if you poke around you'll find we've discussed it previously on this message board a couple times.
I used the Moss coilover kit from about 1991 through 2011, which is probably about as long as anyone. It's robust enough. The shocks and springs are good quality. You can easily change springs to get whatever rate you prefer. You can easily fine tune ride height. If you use the kit to change ride height very dramatically, you'll cause an increase in bump steer (just as you would by fitting shortened front springs). What the Moss kit doesn't do is alter the suspension's fundamental geometry or significantly reduce the suspension's weight (sprung or unsprung.)
By 2012, my shock absorbers were well worn out so I needed to make a change. I kept the lower spring pans and ordered new shock absorbers from Moss UK. I ordered new springs from Eibach. At the top, I discarded the Moss kit's mounting blocks and upper control arm in favor of reworked Armstrong lever shocks with gutted internals. I installed dropped spindles from Targett Motorsport to lower the car while raising the front suspension's roll center. I installed modified steering arms to dramatically reduce bump steer. IMHO, in combination, those changes dramatically improved how well the Moss kit works on my car. At this time, I'm completing the job by fitting a Wilwood big brake kit from Classic Conversions. (The MGB iron brake calipers are rather heavy.)
This all sounds familiar - this Winter's project was to install the Moss coilover, Dick Luening raised spindles, and CCE's big brake kit. Still waiting for Spring to arrive to try it all out.
Mosscoilover2.jpg
Wiloodfront1.jpg
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What about Bill Guzman's new balljoint set up???
QuoteWhat about Bill Guzman's new balljoint set up???...
Unless things have changed with Bill's front suspension design options, the aluminum hub wasn't going to have a 4 x 4.5" bolt pattern available - just Ford (5 x 4.5") and Chevy (5 x 5.75")
What spring rates are you all using. I know Curtis' car is set up for track events, what about leisurely, Sunday twisty road trips with a wife on board?
Mine are the same as Curtis' ........ 525# rated front springs with the Moss suspension kit.
Haven't had the opportunity to try them out yet.....
I went with the base 475# ones from Moss. Also have yet to drive it. Maybe this weekend if the snow and rain stop!
Ok guys when you get them on the road can you report back and tell me how it handles? My car has a ford 302 not sure what everybody else is running.
Today I bolted on one of Bill Guzman's big brake kits - 11.75" vented rotors and 4 piston Wilwood calipers!
While I had the car up on jackstands, I adjusted ride height again. Springs settle over time. Coilovers make it easy to lift the suspension back up to desired ride height.
The GAZ shocks in the Moss kit have adjustment knobs on them. The knob on one shock turns properly. The knob on the other shock is all bound up. I haven't figured out how much that bothers me, but I'll work on getting it loose. From my point of view, it would have been preferable if Moss had optimized dampening rates and then had them built into non-adjustable shocks. Adjustable valves increase the likelihood of problems.
But not having those little knobs would remove the "fiddle factor".
It's no fun to hop into your car and just drive away without adjusting something!
Cheers
Fred
Curtis,
Please give us some feedback on your new brakes. The Moss suspension is pretty economical and seems to be set up pretty decently. I just trailered home my new project and am already shopping! I'm like a kid in a candy store tonight!
Cheers!
Tim
2013-04-20-73MGB-Copy.jpg
Just drove my Moss Coilover for the first time and it was definatly worth the $$ and time! With the poor roads in my town a smother ride was my main objective. I also installed the FrontLine caster wedges and Dick's raised stub axles. This combination has given me exactly what I wanted,lighter steering effort, smoother ride and no more bump steer.
Mike what engine setup are you running? I am trying to determine the spring rate to use, I have a ford 302 crate engine with aluminum heads not sure what the spring rate to use.
Thanks
Abe,
Rover 4.6L with Ford T5. I understand you would be 50 lb or so heavier. Do you have rubber or chrome bumpers as those make more of a diff than the 302 likely. Nice thing with the Coilover is springs are cheap and plentiful should you go too stiff. How are your roads? Maybe go one step up from the base Moss spring of 475 lb.
Mike,
I have a 1980 RB live in mountains of TN. Thanks for the info.
I was looking at a few blogs on the net and on this web site and some mention that the cross member needs to be modified, is that for an old version of the Moss coil over or is it a direct bolt on?
Abe,
If you go to the Moss UK site you can download the directions.
You need to drill a 1 3/4" hole for the upper shock mount. This it easily done with a hole saw, or you can drill a brunch of small hole as Moss says. It's in a location under the original leaver shock so it's of no consequence.
I think people are confused with the Hawks conversion, where you make more significant modifications.
Ok all I will be ordering the coil over from MOSS today, we will see how it goes. Thanks for all the input.
Abe,
The modifications need to be done on the John Hoyle front suspension. The bump stops need to be cut off and some welding is required. I bought his unit a couple of years ago but haven't installed on my car. It is very robust build and has GAZ adjustable coil-over shocks. I do not know the importer here in the USA but for a while the were available from a business in CA.
Werner
I will not be using the Hoyle unit i went with the MOSS unit look a little easier and cost a lot less.
http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=111414
Hi all,
Finally had time to put in the Moss Coil Over in my 80B with a 305 crate engine with aluminum heads. Does anyone know about how many turns it takes on the spring height adjuster to get it to 15in from the center hub to the arch of the wheel well?
Just adjust to preference. I started with mine on the lowest setting and went from there. Remember to role it back and fowrds between each adjustment to settle the suspension
The weather finally broke here in TN it got to 28 and took the car out for a ride and frontend alignment, when I got home it measured 14.5 from the center of the hub to the bottom of the chrome strip. The ride was great it was well worth the time and money.
{Abe,The modifications need to be done on the John Hoyle front suspension. The bump stops need to be cut off and some welding is required. I bought his unit a couple of years ago but haven't installed on my car. It is very robust build and has GAZ adjustable coil-over shocks. I do not know the importer here in the USA but for a while the were available from a business in CA.
Werner}
Gaz shocks and springs are available here. http://www.coilovershock.com/ Brunton Performance Products in FL.
Phil
At the chance of inciting a riot " what's wrong with the Arrmstrong lever shock"?
It's simple, It's rebuild-able, It's tune-able, unsprung weight is reduced and it's precise.
Unless your suspension improvement includes a pivot point change you 're probably going backwards.
So are we doing coil over to be cool or is it a real improvement?
All hail the mighty "B" cam.
Fred
Yes, and even "More British", friction shocks never leak oil. Good Show Fred !
QuoteSo are we doing coil over to be cool or is it a real improvement?
To be cool... but coilovers make ride height adjustment quick, easy, and precise. IMHO that's worth a lot. Alternative springs for coilovers are relatively cost effective. These coilover shocks come with adjustable valving. (You can buy Armstrongs with adjustable valving too.) Basically, you're ending up with a suspension that's far easier to tune than stock.
I absolutely agree with you Curtis.
Was just trying to make a point.
Changing something just because everyone else is. Isn't always the best choice.
If you take the time to educate yourself. And then do what makes sense to you.
You can't go wrong.
Cheers
Fred
I have to agree on the ride height adjustment advantage. Must be nice, cause I have had four different sets of coil springs in my stock front end & it's still not quite where I want it.
You can use spacers under the coil springs though, I think we put about a 3/4" spacer under the RM.
In terms of the shock itself, the Armstrong is superior in many ways such as strength of the components, size of pistons, ability to use different weight oils, ease of changing valving and now the availability of remote external adjusters. When used as a component of the suspension such as on the front of the MG it has minimal effect on unsprung weight. But it is more expensive, and is a maintenance item as you must periodically check the oil level.
On the coil-over, the spring is very compact which makes it a highly stressed component. The end bushings are also highly stressed. Coil-overs have other faults as well, but they are a very simple solution when making a custom design. That does not make them a superior solution. Sometimes easy just overrules best practices. Which doesn't make them bad either, but how often do you see them on production cars? That might be a clue.
Jim
I had to change out my Armstrong shocks because they were leaking from the bushings and also the springs were shot, the car has 135,000 miles on it. Was able to adjust the ride height to 14in and the steering seems to be lighter also and let's not forget about the cool factor....
Has anyone have a problem with the GAZ shock lower bushing breaking apart? Was under the car and noticed that the rubber ends of the bushing are crumbling and are falling apart when I touch them.
The Gaz bushings are junk! Use three sets from Energy bushings. Three because you have to cut one set for the extra width in the centre. At least I think it was the bottom that needed the three. My Moss coil over kit with Gaz shocks lasted all of 300 miles before the bushings were toast. Others will say it's too much to expect a poly bush to hold the weight of a car but that's is how it was designed so it better work in my mind, or else Moss and Gaz have some explaining to do! Nylatron may be a better choice for the bushings but also may be harsher etc.
Thanks for the info Mike.. Do you happen to remember what ones you ordered?
Energy 99105g. I have only had the new ones on for a few months, time will tell if they hold up any better. The stock GAZ replacement bushings from Moss looked so poor I never considered installing them.
Mike how did those new bushings work for you, are they holding out better.? Just getting around to order the ones you did.
Haven't gone that many miles yet but they are holding up fine so far. Mike Alexander has more miles on his possibly.
I saw Mike at a show last week. He mentioned running the energy bushings and it seems everything is holding up
What's the ride height range adjustability? Checked the moss site but didn't see any information regarding it.
Also, any idea on the product # for the gaz shock?
Robert,
Not sure of the adjustability on the car but the threaded portion of the shock measures about 3.5". The Moss # is shown on the attached picture. The actual GAZ # appears to be SP8 1129 B14 N09.
I've had these for a couple of years but just haven't had the opportunity to put them on yet.
Scott
GAZShockMoss.jpg
GAZShockDimensions.jpg
Scott, thank you for the response. Just what I was looking for.
You're welcome Robert. One thing I just realized I didn't make clear is that's a Moss Europe #, FYI.
Scott
Ok, I am in the planning stage of a crazy build. I have a heavy motor going in a 1976 MG Midget. I would like to put a 5 lug hub on the car. Does anyone know where I can find something? Someone said a old mustang. Any help will be great.
Narrow Mustang II. Check out Welder series.
just have a quick question anyone use this before and what are your thoughts?
http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=81276
Anybody?
http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=81276
I haven't tried them but there have been threads on the Mgexperience board. They give a little too much Neg. camber and wear the inside of the tires. May be alright for autocross but not necessary for the street.
Scott, Would you happen to know the compressed and extended eye to eye lengths of your GAZ coilover shocks. I'm trying to find a QA1 alternative. I'm thinking Mustang II or early Camaro with top eyelet conversion. 8" 450 lb coil spring . Just an idea.
QuoteScott, Would you happen to know the compressed and extended eye to eye lengths of your GAZ coilover shocks. I'm trying to find a QA1 alternative. I'm thinking Mustang II or early Camaro with top eyelet conversion. 8" 450 lb coil spring . Just an idea.
Jim,
About 10 1/2" compressed and about 12 1/4" extended.
Really? That's not much travel.
Yeah, Mustang II has 3", early Camaro has 4". I think because it is so far from the wheel it is double the travel at the wheel. Mustang II and street(Poly bushed) eyelet adapter:
qa1m2.jpg
qa1streeteyelet.jpg
QuoteReally? That's not much travel.
Well, I kind of lied. :) There is a rubber stop on the shock which probably skewed the measurements. I would assume you'd get close to another 1/2 to 3/4" once it was compressed. Excuse the pictures, I took them very quickly the other night.
ShockCompressed.jpg
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ShockExtendedClose.jpg
Looks like a nice progressive bump stop.
I Know this an old thread but has anyone figure out the damping on the shocks, how many clicks on the knob i have a 302 and been trying to get it dialed in.
Sorry forgot to mention this is for a Moss coil over.
Thanks