Hi,
Haven't posted much, not much to post about until now. I have an MGA chassis coming in in a couple of days, clean and stripped with the "goal post" removed and accompanying the chassis. I just picked up a Ford 302 engine and automatic over-drive trans and am planning on placing the Ford drive line in the MGA chassis.
Of COURSE, I'd much prefer a five speed, but my left knee is shot and I doubt that a clutch pedal is in my near or far future right now.
The re-construction and strengthening of the frame isn't a problem, welding and fabrication is almost second nature, but I was wondering if there were any tips or pit falls, help or things to avoid in doing this swap?
I've done a Chevy V6 in an MGB, pretty easy if you plan WAY ahead, just never tried something so big in something so small and could use any help that you folks can give.
Thanks ! !
TC
Should be pretty straight forward as far as getting the engine and trans set into the chassis. Try to get the engine as far forward as possible to minimize the intrusion into the footwells, as the steering runs very close when the center of the goal post is opened up. Definitely try to get the goal post and lower tubular crossmember back in the frame in some fashion, as they add a lot of torsional stiffness to the frame that is really needed and the goal post acts as a mouting point for the steering gear and brake master cylinders as well. Despite what you might think, leg room is pretty tight on an MGA to start with, narrow the foot wells much and it really can become uncomfortalby tight even without a clutch pedal. Lots of creative ways around that though such as using a 1500 MIdget throttle assembly which moves the cable to the driver's side and even different pedals if necessary. I have an MGA that I've been playing with for a number of years now with an inline 6 and 5 speed installed. Photos in the project section, I was one of the first to post there. You mignt get some ideas from what I had to do and my new floor board supports etc.
Yes, I can tell that there's going to be an issue with foot room no matter what trans is used. Since it's a body-off deal, with the chassis and engine being tied together before the front clip is even close to being fitted, I was thinking of removing the rear diagonal from the goal post on both sides and running a piece of 2x4 steel along the top of the chassis rail with a quarter inch thick triangular plate from that additional piece to the uprights of the goal post.
Without the diagonals intruding into the cabin, there ought to be an extra two inches or more room, with a little room sacrificed at the very bottom, and the triangular plates tying things together.
Some more 2x4 lengths on the inside of the frame rails beneath the doors will strengthen things further.
I'm sort of hoping, and planning, on removing some intrusive metal/bulkheads/reinforcements and marrying other lengths to the insides and to areas so as to replace the metal taken out.
With the chassis exposed and the drive train in full view, I think that I may be able to work in this way and not loose any strength or rigidity. It'll take cleverness and correct materials, but . . . hoping. any way.
Torsional stiffness is probably going to be an issue, but you may be able to get creative in adding that in. Keep in mind that one of the best ways to add torsional stiffness is with a tubular cross member, regardless of where it is placed in the chassis. Often an OEM will use a tubular member to tie the front spring hangers together, bending it in a hoop to go over the drive shaft. For a given amount of metal, a large diameter thin wall tube is stiffer than a small thick wall one, so if you can find a way around the driveshaft or transmission tailshaft, even if the tailshaft had to go through the middle of the tube... well, just a thought. Or a tube behind the axle and in front of the engine would help.
Jim
I left the diagonal brace on the rear, but cut about half of it away and plated over that area. Gave me about an inch and a half more foot room without loosing too much strength. Besides, there is a panel that fits over that triangular shaped area that seals the foot well from the fender, you really need to keep that in place as the body doesn' t fill that void. It also makes a great mount for a dead pedal for your left foot.
Any updates on this? I only ask because I currently have a MGA with a Ford 289.
Just my two cents.
My MGA has a Chevy 4.3L V6. Had I to do it over again I'd installed a 302. The Chevy motor is wider (engine bay of MGA is narrower than the bay on a MGB) than a 302. It takes "more" to create greater HP in the 4.3.
I can't comment on the size requirements of an automatic transmission. My transmission tunnel took away two inches on both the driver and passenger side for a T-5.
Thomas, If you really like a stick, why not switch,(your foot) ? Thinking outside the box,"foot box", If your able to use your left foot for accellerator...why not ? If your capable to do a swap like this, making reversed pedal arrangement, should be easy ? + 2 cents, t-axle ? Good Luck. roverman.
Wasn't there a post on here once about a 351 Ford in a MGA? But, there again, if memory serves me right the guy was running a custom frame-- maybe that is the way to do it?
So, what do we think about this?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221061690130?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Pretty tight fit in the engine bay.
Always bothers me when the seller proclaims ignorance about the car.
Ivor
Of course I'm old and my eyesight is failing, but it also bothers me that the seller thinks it's an MGB.
Paul
I did tell him three days ago, he isn't bothered I guess.
Ivor
The flat bottom on the radiator opening gives it a sad appearance don't you think?
Jim
Yes! That poor old car certainly deserves a more caring owner.
I thought the writing on the windshield was a little odd, considering.
Sorry for not being around, I have been side tracked a bit having my knee fixed, feels great and has changed my project requirements a bit.
I recebtly found a rough but complete '58 MGA Coupe to use as the new basis for my project, ALWAYS loved the coupe, but didn't think that I would ever find one locally and affordable. I've also decided that I'll run a standard transmission as well, now that I'm able to work the clutch once again.
Picked up a nice condition '89 Mustang 5.0/T-5 package complete, and have begin stripping out the coupe to get a better look at the engine bay with the body still attached. Looks like the inner fender wells will need to be cut and moved, the exhaust will be run through the fender wells and down, but the oil pan and front of the engine ought to fit OK. Bought a short water pump and oil filter relocation kit, found a fairly low profile four barrel intake manifold (stock 67 Mustang) and looking for a stock low profile early Mustang points-style distributor to install a Pertronix module into. These parts and pieces and plans ought to work together to help the engine/trans fit within the engine bay confines fairly well.
Could use a bit of help with the radiator, can't seem to find one in the aftermarket that's small enough and with a two or three pass core, any siggestions for an alternative (Maybe one buiult for another car that will fit and do the job? ) would help a lot.
I also found a good MGC rear end for the project, wondering if anyone has gone this route and, other than the e-brake, has had any luck or problem with it? I also have a stock '86 Mustang traction loc rear end which could be narrowed to fit the MGA, just seems like a bit more work than the MGC option. Anybody left the stock MGA rear in place with an engine transplant? How long did it stand up to the new power?
Thanks SO much for the info, I'm new to the MGA and learning things every day.
TC
TC,
Radiator for a 1967 Mustang V8 fits well. I ultimatelyi installed an aluminum radiator (dropped operating temp approx 12 degrees) and changed the sides of the inlet and outlet tubes because my motor is a 4.3L chevy.
The coupe is a nice touch...
Jeb
Quoteand looking for a stock low profile early Mustang points-style distributor to install a Pertronix module into.
Check out a '85 5.0L manual transmission mustang distributor. Already has the magnetic pickup guts and more importantly it already has a steel drive gear which you need if you have a roller cam. Remanufactured they're only about $50 so not worth going used IMO. Just check the gear. The 1st two I got from my local Autozone had cast iron gears. Same PN from NAPA (but the Cardone box had a NAPA label covering the Cardone logo) had the right gear. It comes with an adapter for the big cap but a small cap fits w/o that piece.
The Cardone distributor is also available at Pep Boys. Cardone has one for $44 and what appears to be the same distributor for about $54. I'm not sure what the difference is. I have a PC7002 electronic distributor and a PC-90 epoxy filled ignition coil from ProComp which has a casting on the side that houses some of the electronics and almost directly opposite is the vacuum diaphragm housing. They both hit the intake manifold and I'm not sure there is enough rotation to time the motor properly; plus it's too tall. If you guys want to see my distributor I'd really rather open the hood (sorry, bonnet) because I'm not all that interested in cutting a hole in my hood if I can help it. I know I have to change something and the Cardone unit has been the front runner so far. What else would I need to make it work?
Paul
If you have an electronic distributor presumably have an ignition that'll work with a magnetic pickup. If so, you shouldn't need anything else to make the 85 mustang one work. It fits under my hood with no bulge or scoop but may depend how high your motor is.
I have the coil. My motor does seem to set higher than most others, in fact some of you have commented on it. I notched the crossmember as much as I considered safe and barely clear the steering rack but I did start out with the stock 72 crossmember; I'm assuming that is the cause. I've about decided to change to the Carbone distributor after I make sure it is in fact shorter than the one I have.
Paul
PM me your email & I'll shoot you some pics showing some reference points for how the motor lines up to the frame rails & how the distributor fits.
Thanks Rob. On the way!
Paul
Well, sort of been away for a long while, poking around another MG site, gathering the crucial information that I needed for the disassembly of all of the bady pieces, removal of the body, and rebuilding the stock MGA front suspension. Now back (the prodigal son as it were) and in deeper trouble than when I left for a spell.
The project coupe (with the 302/T5 combination) is buttoned up and on hold until I better learn about what I'm doing. Right now I've shifted my attention to the '58 MGA roadster. Been gathering parts, working on body panels, rebuilding/refurbishing a grill and trim and interior parts and such in order to TRY to build a Vintage Drag Car in the old NHRA Modified Sports Car Class style.
For this car, I have a nice running 302 backed up by an AOD trans and hopefully a TR7/8 rear end. I also have a Mustang rear, but it's destined for another project. The automatic trans, while not as robust as it could be, will be perfect for the consistancy needed for any sucess at this. I'm sort of hoping that the automatic trans will also help the TR7/8 rear live a little longer than it would with a five speed.
Picked up a pair of old long tube headers off of an old Falcon along with vintage Weiand valve covers and intake, going to try to back-date the look of the 302 to that of an early hi-po 289. It'll fit the look of the body and further the masquerade.
Also got a handful of small vintage speed pieces to help round things out, I hope.
Anyway, GREAT to be back and all. I've already picked up a nice tip on helping to reduce rear spring wrap, and sold a pair of old Offy valve covers at a forum discount to someone looking for a bargain and in need of them.
All in all, a really fun return. I'll post some pics after the snows stop and the New Years stuff is over with.
Thanks all,
TC
Tom,
Just note on the Wieand intake, it's quite a bit taller than most of the usual aftermarket offerings so you'll need to account for that wit the bonnet height. It's too bad Pony carbs went of of business or I could have sent you over to them for nice period Autolite 4100 reworked to flow 560CFM.
DT
Thanks for the tip on the Weiand intake. I got it for a song and on this car height isn't a concern. I'd been planning on a snorkle-style scoop, but now thinking that I might cut and gently bend the aluminum so the the carb and horn look as though they punched through the hood, opening a maybe ten inch hole and bending/folding the aluminum back as they came through.
As a back-up plan, I picked up a fiberglass shaker scoop from one of those old Firebirds with the gold eagle decal on the hood.
Either way, the height of the intake and carb isn't a factor. The distributor WAS an issue, but the rebuilt "old school" Accel dual-point fits nice and low and snug and looks suitably vintage with that silly brown distributor cap.
I've picked up most of the necessary parts and got most of them sorted out as to what's going to fit and how each willl work. The VW Beetle torsion bar front end is almost there, the cage and door bars/reinforcements are the chores for this Winter. With only the original goal post still in play, the additional support tubing is going to have to be sorted out carefully. Luckily the car isn't going to be THAT fast, so the cage won't need to be too extensive to be NHRA legal, and the Nostalgia Drags are even more lenient than the regular class racing.
TC
WOW ! ! 2014 . . . it HAS been a long time since I last posted !
Still collecting parts for and solving problems on the 302 powered MGA coupe. As of now, I think that I have everything necessary to start in one it, wxcept some decent weather. It's been horribly here in New England this Winter.
WinterHouse.jpg
After going around a bit on the rear end, I found a nice narrowed Ford Capri for a great price, hopefully strong enough for the 302. The same rear end that came in the V8 Mustang II, so I should be OK for a while.
Ended up with an altered MG Midget pedal box with bent to fit pedals and TRW master cylinders for the clutch and brakes. Even with the T-5 trans and bellhousing, seems like the available room will be fine. I picked up a standard Hot Rod "spoon-style" firewall mount gas pedal which also will squeeze in just fine.
In the mean time, as I want to sell the Mustang and wanted something fun and reliable to replace it, I bought a neat '58 Austin A35. Already got the early MG MIdget front end/brake pieces for it and getting a late model Midget 3.7 rear end with the fatter axles. Bought a Capri V6/four speed combination as well. Just started in getting the body in shape, then start the installation of all of the upgrades that I bought for it.
A35rearaspurchased.jpg
rear1.jpg
All for now, promiss to post more often, Over and out,
TC