First off as a new guy on the block, I really enjoy this Forum. In fact I enjoy this whole website!
I have read alot of the descriptions on these V8 conversions but somehow am not clear as to whether any firewall cutting is necessary to put a 302 in a 1973 or later MGB body. I read the factory opened up the engine bay in 1973 to install the 215 so I assume the engine bay stayed the same up through 1980. Or did they open it up or change it again for the 1977 & later model years? I have read various things at various places & just not sure.
Two years ago, I purchased a '76 B with a Rover 214 & Rover 5-speed and love it. But want a coupe to do a conversion and thought one of the Rover engines would slip right in on a 73 or later coupe body, but wondered about any engine bay cutting to install a 302.
Thanks for the help.
The firewall was "opened up" for North American rubber bumper cars built 74 1/2 thru '80, the inner fenders reshaped for the Rover V8 installation, the steering u-joint made smaller and retracted into a pocket in the firewall and there were changes made to the frame side 4-banger motor mounts (with the steering shaft passing through the mount) - sadly, your '73 doesn't have these features so some cutting and welding is necessary to install a Rover or 302..
Hi Tim,
To summarize what I've found and experienced...
The Ford is the best bang for the buck power wise/parts wise, but requires more fabrication to make it fit in the car cleanly.
The Rover fits in the car the easiest, but power per dollar is lower than the Ford, and parts are more expensive.
Then there is the Buick 300... someone with a big spoiler on the trunk lid of his car will be along shortly to tell you why that is the best choice ever. =) lol....
-Chris
Graham, if I'm reading Tim's post right, he hasn't bought a 73 yet. Has a '76 roadster with a 215 & is considering a 2nd car to do his own swap. If that's the case, I think he could simply get a 74 1/2 or later GT (coupe) & do the 302 swap into that. I'm not sure about Bill's or Pete's 302 mount kits, but I think if he used the mounts you did (Comet?) there's no modification to the firewall, steering linkage, etc. required -- just the cross member for oil pan clearance. Right?
Most 302 guys I think have had to notch the frame rail out a little for the remote filter plate also.
There is an argument that it is just as easy to convert a CB (chrome bumper) car as it is to swap RB to CB, and of course the ride height is lower. I would tend to agree, but then I REALLY like converting to the shaft collar type steering rack mount, as it makes steering shaft alignment so simple and easy and almost makes servicing the rack a quick-change operation.
302s are becoming more popular for a lot of good reasons, mainly availability. But if you can find a '64 300 (with the aluminum heads) you have an engine with a lot of potential. It will fit as easily as the 215 in a RB car (you can mount it about an inch lower for hood clearance) and it has a stronger block than the 302. Parts will cost a bit more but everything is available to build a modern engine, including aftermarket heads, roller cams, and neoprene rope seals. Of course EFI and crank trigger ignition can be fitted to anything. For a simple install with great room for improvement, this is it. You can even stroke it out to 350 ci using the factory Buick 340/350 crank and a .050 overbore. Both it and the 302 weigh roughly 50 lbs more than stock which won't even be noticed.
Jim
That about sums it up, Rob......
......a reworked front crossmember for pan clearance , some left siderail rework (for clearance for the oil bypass adapter), some subtle hammer messaging in the tunnel area to accomodate some bellhousing features, and your choice of frame side motor mounts.
The extra benefit to using the RB car is that the engine can sit 1" lower in the chassis than a CB car (due to the extra 1" rise in the RB xmbr (and subsequent lower steering rack).
I didn't have to notch or hammer my side rail for the remote oil filter plate. Don't ask me why, but it had room and the motor is centered.
Paul
Hey, If you don't mind a 100 or so extra pounds on the front axle a SBC is a pretty easy swap. No cutting on the crossmember and only some sledge hammer work on the tunnel. WIth the extra power you are going to need a heavier rear end anyway so it will tend to balance out the weight on the front. I gave up on Fords years ago because of the extra cost for speed parts. That was a long time ago so maybe things have changed. Depends what you want in a car. Just my two cents worth.
Bill
No Bill, things haven't changed much. Another issue is a 350 is pretty much a 350 but all 302's are not alike.
Paul
...and the Chevy block is taller, so hood clearance becomes an issue.
Are you going to be at the British V8 show in Palestine, Paul?....just a stones throw from DFW.
And, then there are the headers. None for the 350. Ted's for the 302 are high dollar and really might as well be log manifolds, although they do look really nice. Not sure what else there is but if you have to spend $800 on headers...
The 300 can use the Rover RV8 style with no problems. For the price difference you might be able to fit a roller cam or pay nearly half the cost of a set of bare TA heads. The RV8 headers are still unequal length but at least they actually are headers.
If you're going to add 100 lbs and build your own exhaust you might want to think about the big block Buick. The weight is the same.
Jim
There is a 300 for sale in the classifed ads
FYI My RV8 ss header ports are almost 1/4" shorter than the 300 exhaust ports. Width is fine. Not sure if you would want to use them on 300 heads?
FYI, sbf hedders,(cheap used), can be modded to fit Rover. Side veiw, the distance between front/rear pair of primaries, need to be moved closer together. Band saw-off the sbf flanges, and add rovers. Even thought this is considerable work, still easier than fabbing from scratch. Your results may vary. Cheers, roverman,
>There is a 300 for sale in the classifed ads
That would be worth it in two situations:
1) it's an ultra-cheapie budget build with intentions to upgrade as parts (heads and intake) become available.
2) it's a well funded effort and TA heads and Willpower single plane or EFI are part of the plan, perhaps with a 350 crank, forged pistons and a roller cam. In which case it would be the equal of any other conversion and better than most.
Otherwise, it's spare parts. The engine sounds sound but it has iron heads, intake, and low compression pistons.
Jim
If you want an thrill, this guy has the right idea!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180844544714&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
I love his comment: " Car runs great. I'm too old and it scares me. " Anybody know anything about the car?
Heck, my little old 350 does a pretty good job of scaring me! Maybe I shouldn't be in a big hurry to finish up on that 454/MGB on the lift...........
It would be interesting to hear from anyone that has done both swaps and see exactly what the differences are. I admit to being partial to Chevys but only from a $ standpoint. It's hard to beat the sound of a SBF at full throttle. I like the idea of the aluminum rover motors but again it looks like a power/dollar issue. LS engines are almost in my price range..............
Bill
Hey Graham, I don't think the car will be ready, but I'll be at Palestine. Wouldn't miss it! While we're on the subject, it is scheduled for May 21-23 which is a Monday through Wednesday, so says my iPhone; is that correct?
Paul
I have really enjoyed reading all of these comments comparing the 302, Rover & Buick. Jim Blackwood mentiones some advantages of the Buick 300. I read on Wikipedia, under Buick Engines that the 300 & 340 appear to be the same engine, just a longer stroke for the 340. Same block, dimensions? Yes, no?. Thanks again.
Paul Speaks must be in my backyard, since I am in Coppell, Tx.
Hi Tim, I live south of Dallas, in the Duncanville area, but all my work is done in McKinney. At least when I do work on it that is. Most of the time we set around, smoke cigars and make up stores.
Paul
re: Hey Graham, I don't think the car will be ready, but I'll be at Palestine. Wouldn't miss it! While we're on the subject, it is scheduled for May 21-23 which is a Monday through Wednesday, so says my iPhone; is that correct?
Yes. that is correct. Come in on Sunday night for some early pre-meet fun!
It might be Tuesday, but I'll be there.
Paul
Thanks to all for the explanations on choosing one of these engines. I appreciate your knowledge & input. Next step is to get the coupe. Its 140 miles south of here on IH 35. I'll keep ypu posted. Thanks
Where's the car Tim - San Antonio?