i am rather new to this forum-been a lurker for awhile....but i am on the tail end of a swap and wondered if anyone was interested in seeing some shots of it so far. What i have done so far:
-mounted the Miata engine (1990) with fabricated mounts welded to the frame (engine and 5 speed for $400)
-ran new clutch lines
-had the driveshaft shortened and the miata portion welded on (perfect fit for $100)
-some "trimming" of the firewall for the clutch slave, the center hump for the longer tranny
-ran new 5/16th fuel lines for the EFI, mounted fuel pump and filter in trunk
-fabricated tilt mount for miata radiator to fit under hood
-fabricated a mount for the MAF, Purge Canister, and various other doo dads the miata engine needs.
I found the Miata engine about 1.5 inches too high...while i have seen ways to lower the engine-they involved lowering the steering rack which is more radical surgery than i wanted to do....and i am not a purist (obviously)
with the cheapo hood scoop it actually will look pretty good-once painted.
i must admit-with the 2 dozen trial fits of the engine and tranny-lifting it out that many times solo led to some banged up fingers-it is a tight fit...but looks great.
Still to do:
-finish the wiring-been working on it for the last 3 weeks-i got a FULL harness, but 2/3 of it isn't needed-lights, ac, radio, windows, etc....so tons of extra wires removed...truthfully the darn thing was 50 pounds and massive. alot of research on the web to find out what is truly needed and what can be bypassed. some interesting mistakes in some wiring diagrams also (Haynes-they try to cover too many years)
-mount the fuse box and relay box once finalized, wrap up all the wiring into a neat package....
-fill up with fuel, oil, and hook up the battery (scary)
i figure 2-3 weeks before a test start.....i have been doing this swap since November-so not a long time.
Oh-lots of cosmetics once it is running-fabricate a new tunnel, move the brake lever(gear shift on the mazda is farther rear), mount the ECU, etc....
comments?
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Looks like you've done a great job so far. Welcome aboard.
Hi Douglas ... looks like you've made a lot of progress in a short period of time. I've had my mechanic (Graham) on a similar effort since January 2011 -- yes, 15 months! (Mine's with a 1.8L/5spd from a '94.) He was doing great until 1) he took an overly complicated approach to the wiring, got stuck and had to move on to some other jobs; 2) had his house foreclosed on and had to pack everything up and move; and 3) had to take in his grown-up son who's going through a bitter divorce. He's finally back on the case and I'm hoping he'll be in a position to start the engine within the next couple of days. Wish me luck.
The upside of the project is he's done what I think is a pretty elegant installation so far. When Graham first pitched me on the idea of doing the swap after my 1.5L Triumph engine broke its crank, I told him I was on board with it if he could do the installation without messing with the hood and screwing up the location of the shifter or radically changing the interior. Looks like he's going to be able to meet that standard (for the most part).
He notched the frame and relocated one of the crossmembers to enable us to drop the engine to a point where there's no clearance problem with the hood (he says we have two fingers between the front of the valve cover and the inside of the bonnet). He did have to relocate the rack a little bit (I think he moved it forward and down a little). He also cut into the firewall (welding in commensurate stiffening to the sheet metal) and re-worked the transmission cover to match. What was really cool is he relocated the gear-selector box forward about eight inches so the shifter remains in the stock position. Frankly, I haven't seen another MX5 swap done this way and I think it makes a huge difference to the quality of the job.
The only downside so far is the rear "hump" of tranny cover has had to be tweaked a bit to accomodate the back half of the shifter box, but there's still enough clearance for the brake lever to remain in the stock position. Obviously we'll have to do some tweaking of the tranny carpet piece when we get to that point but everything else should fit, including the structurally critical center support piece that links the dash to the frame.
Meanwhile, it looks like you've taken the same route we have with respect to the radiator. My set up is similar (using both Miata fans) and Graham has fabricated some cool-looking tubing to run from the intake to the MAF over the top of the radiator to end in a K/N-style air filter to catch cooler air in front of the radiator. Oh, and we're using the same higher-amp Bosch alternator I had been running with the original engine, and he ground off the lettering on the valve cover, sanded it smooth and threw on some crinkle-black paint. To the untrained eye, the installation should look pretty stock.
Graham also says he's going to adapt the Miata inertia switch to the fuel pump (from a 2.3L Mercedes) so we have automatic fuel cutoff in the event of an accident. If he can stay focused on the project, I think it's going to be a damn cool car once he has it back on the road!
Anyway, ask away if you want any specifics. I'll be following your efforts and may reach out to you if you're able to get your engine running properly before my guy does!! Best of luck on your project -- I think the Miata engine in a Spit is a great combo!
Hey Jeff,
A kindred soul! It sounds like you are getting very close to first fire up! Post some pics when you get a chance-i would love to see how Graham took care of some of the challenges i bypassed-like i said, lowering/moving the steering rack was a bit too much engineering/welding for me.
As for the gear shift-i was concerned about the rear postion-but i am tall-about 6"2 and have the seats all the way back and reclined...so i always felt the stock triumph shift location was a bit too far forward. i am comfortable with the rear location-but as noted have to move the brake lever...i like how Joe Curry did it in his mod-same location but moved over to the side...
Good progress on the wiring this weekend-wired the fuel pump, mounted it and the filter, wired the ignition switch and tach...and "shortened" alot of the long runs of wire. i am finally getting to the point where the wiring harness is almost under control. Oh-i also cut a circular hole in the firewall for the ECU cables....will mount that next weekend. i have decided both the relay box and fuse box will go in the old battery location(i am fabricating a cover for it. the Batt is relocated to the trunk like the miata has it.
Like you-i know i will have to do some fabrication for the tranny tunnel and hump....that will be one of the last items.
One item you might be able to help me with...the 2 switchs ON the tranny....none of the manuals are really clear on which is which and how they should be wired.....
i'll post some new pics next weekend after the wiring is done...i am sooooo close...lol.
I like your idea of the fuel cutoff...i may ping you for specifics.
Kindred soul indeed! Although it sounds like you have a broader base of abilities than I do -- there's no way I'd be willing to tackle (or be capable of tackling) this swap on my own.
Didn't hear from Graham this weekend, which of course means he didn't get the car started. I don't get to physically check on his progress very often -- long story, but he and my car are up in Vegas; I live not far from Palm Springs, Calif.
I know what you mean about the shift position. I'm a good deal shorter than you -- I'm a little under 5'9" and I've always thought the Spit's interior was tailor made for somebody like me. Regardless of shifter position, it's going to be nice to be able to aggressively downshift -- the synchos in my old O/D were always playing catch-up so I could never drive the car very hard.
Don't have any pics of the notches Graham made in the frame or the relocated crossmember between the suspension uprights. But I'm including some that show the engine placement and radiator installation, along with a shot of the car in better days.
Early in the progress Graham and I discussed relocating the battery to the trunk. After some thought I decided I didn't want to upset the existing weight distribution as I had the stance right where I wanted it. That being said, I may rethink it as I do like the thought of having a heavy battery in the right rear corner to help balance things out (my other car is an older BMW with that setup). Speaking of the trunk, several years ago I got rid of the spare and ground off the mounting post to create a smooth floor, then had the entire area carpeted. It's much more useable now (if I remember correctly, anyway!).
We'll be installing the ECU on the outboard side of the passenger footwell. The relays will be fitted in a separate box under the hood close to the battery. I think the plan is to fit the fuel pump, filter and inertia switch in the in the trunk.
Offhand I can't offer any advice on the tranny switches but I'll try to remember to ask Graham the next time I talk to him. Meanwhile, if you can get your engine running, please let me know. I'll be asking if I can get your number so Graham can give you a call. :-) Thing is, he did get it running last summer but there was a weird off-idle hesitation he could never figure out, which prompted him to pretty much start from scratch on a lot of systems: wiring, fuel delivery, etc. Then all manner of shit came down in his personal life and the entire process pretty much ground to a halt until just recently.
OK, as promised, here are some pics ...
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Success this weekend! i got it running-after some simple troubleshooting......once i validated just about EVERY connection one more time-i hooked up the battery-and was pleased to see nothing immediately started frying. Did a quick turnover of the engine-no problems, starter kicked strongly, again, nothing frying. Radio, lights, gauges all working (headlights no but i know what i need to do there).
After kicking it over several times-it became evident no fuel was flowing....quick check of voltage at the fuel pump confirmed-no power to it. checking at the relay-3 out of 4 connections good-....but the ground was NOT! simple fix, ran it to a bulkhead ground i have made. In testing the voltage at the fuel pump...the thing started after about 3 seconds unexpectedly....i was TOTALLY not expecting it to start that easily......
Loads of smoke from the exhaust/manifold as it burned off grease/cleaner and other crud....once that burned off-clearly have an exhaust leak to take care of.....timing is WAY off.....but it RUNS! My list of To Do items is slowly getting whittled down....this was a biggie.
Tested the charging system-definitely putting out good voltage....
Next steps: Headlights, wire in the reverse switch and stop light switch(to the ECU), fix the leak, check for vacume leaks, Tune it up.....
Congrats Douglas!
Always a great feeling, with a first start up. I have been watching these posts, because I have a 73 Spitfire and may go with this swap.
Way to go Douglas!
Not much that feels better than that first start up is there.
Cheers
Fred
Thanks for the encouragement.....this forum is what convinced me that i could do this-lots of great advice and reviews of different options. i am adding a few photos so you can see some of the wiring challenges i had...as well as my choice on location of the fuel pump...for now.
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A bit of progress this weekend....not as much as i had hoped:
-mounted the battery box in the trunk
-mounted the relay box and the fuse box in the old battery location (i plan on building a lid for it)
-finally got the speedo cable hooked onto the transmission-it was MORE than a tight fit...had to notch the floor pan, and trim a small amount off the cable.
The exhaust leak is coming from the manifold - i ordered a new gasket and removed the manifold and downpipe in prep....i am not going to try tuning until this is resolved.....so some of the rest is on hold...i should have the new gaskets in several days... a few smashed fingers getting the manifold out....c'est la vie.
will take some pics next weekend....
Team,
i wanted to get some opinions from the team-i am putting a "temporary" exhaust pipe in place for the time being-to get the beast up running and back on the road....i am using a 6 foot length of the flex tubing you can get at any auto parts store. it does allow me to route it under the car-but since the manifold is on the opposite side of the engine from the stock triumph-room is limited and the routing is not ideal.
What are your collective thoughts on running it outside the driver's side rocker panel like a custom rod? i have seen a few done that way(mainly with monster V-8's)...and am open to the concept. several items concern me:
1. mount points on the rocker....doesn't seem like that would be strong enough
2. heat shielding
3. muffler-i do not want a loud beast-i want this stock quiet. any "inline" mufflers that would work with a hot rod setup like this?
Am i crazy? (quite possible-but thinking of the options is fun!)
d
Hi Doug ... congrats! Here's hoping I'm not too far behind you ... :-)
I'm not a fan of the flex tubing as it has no basic strength of it's own and will require a lot more support from the body and chassis. You can mount in along side the rocker, but make your mounts attach under the car to the floor pan and extend out to support the exhaust from the bottom. And head shields are definitely a must. Not only to prevent burns to your own legs, but also to protect passers buy before the exhaust cools down, especially children. A car with an external exhaust is not one that you can just park and walk away from for that reason, especially if it's a custom or modified car that will attract curiousity. I used to have a street rod with zoomies and more than once I had to fend off children who wanted to run up and touch the headers.
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I'm with Bill on the flex tubing idea -- fraught with peril no matter how you go about it and very much out of character for a Spitfire. I'll be talking to my mechanic Graham tomorrow about how he's routed the exhaust from the wrong side to mate with my old four-outlet Monza unit. Will let you know (he's pretty crafty!).
Meanwhile, a shout-out to Bill: I grew up in the KC area (Kansas side -- Overland Park). Graduated from UMKC and worked in radio for a while before moving west. Was back to visit family for Thanksgiving 2010 after more than 25 years away -- the city looks great (enjoyed the Power & Light District and that new concert hall looks very cool!).
Thanks for the advice....i'll go with the temporary solution under the car, and hold off on the side mount exhaust (probably a "winter" project) for now. i got the manifold gaskets-so this weekend will be sorting out the exhaust....
Good progress this weekend:
-no more exhaust leak and am happy with the routing of the pipe
-fixed a leaky clutch fitting (had to redo a bubble flare on one end and a standard double flare on the other end to adapt)
-fixed leaky thermostat housing..when i took the cover off-there was NO gasket....luckily the local store had one.
Once all this done-fired it up...i let it warm up fully and set the timing....no issues and seems to idle ok at 800-900.
felt brave and drove it around the block.....tranny shifts REALLY NICE....have to get used the the clutch.. a bit different than the triumphs old one.
it is still not running well-i have some issue i still need to find-either a vacumn leak or idle switch/MAF issue. will work on that next weekend...but-i felt a burst of power on one of the straight stretchs....EGADS....i never felt that before in the Spit....amazing-once i sort out this leak/miss/choppiness this is going to be one fast beast!
So close.....lol...oh-and i also mounted the scoop and primed it.
ok..i finally had some time this weekend to do some troubleshooting...i figured i would eliminate a few obvious ones first:
- compression...all good, averaged about 170 per cylinder (better than expected)
- throttle position sensor, removed, tested, reset, good (cleaned the throttle body at the same time-though it was pretty clean already.
- timing, rechecked (at about 14 BTDC)
- bypassed the AFM with the diag module..no change
-checked all vacumn lines for cracks, pcv valve, and rechecked my plug on the AC vacumn line (not used at this point)
- fuel pressure....manual says it should be 35lbs pressure at idle...IMAGINE my surprise when the gauge pegged at 100lbs at idle.....no matter what. I had run new steel lines, new rubber lines in between, new filter...so not the lines. So-either the pressure regulator is shot (most likely)...or the return feed into the tank (only the actual connection on the tank-the lines are new)...not likely.
with that much pressure i am surprised there were no leaks on my lines.....
New regulator on order, due to arrive tomorrow. i should know by the weekend. fingers crossed-but no matter what-this problem had to be addressed.
Success! Replacing the pressure regulator solved the stumble/choking/stalling problems! pressure now right on the money at about 38lbs at idle.
So i took it out on a quick test drive on a back road that has nice, quiet straight...and WOW...i had it up to 90 in 4th gear before i realized it...not enough space to get into 5th...the engine revs so much faster than the triumph one....and gives a real kick in the pants above 3k....
i spent sunday solving some leftover Lucas wiring gremlins...ended up rewiring all the front end lights....but now everything works as it should...
i started putting everything back together and the trans tunnel fabrication....i figure a week or 2 to get it all back together...list of items:
-mount the ECU in a permanent location
-trans tunnel(need to modify for the slave cylinder)
-exhaust wrap-it is hot
-gearshift/brake lever panel (i plan on doing wood trim)
-carpet and passenger seat-put back
-cover for the fuse/relays that are now in the battery box
-finish priming the bonnet(this may not happen for a few weeks)
not alot left to do!....oh-and schedule a DOT inspection...
Today i finally had some time to do some work on the project...i FINALLY solved the stumble/hesitation/stalling issue at 2k rpm.....it turned out to be dirty connections on the air flow meter......i can't believe it made that much difference! the beast is a dream to drive now.
so today-i focused on finishing the tranny tunnel area.....pics uploaded...i don't think this is the permanent look-but i am pretty pleased with the outcome. The triumph badge was a perfect fit where the gearshift used to be. note that now the gearshift is about 8 inches to the rear..which forced me to move the brake as far back as possible, shorten the cable, etc....since i am tall and the seat is all the way back(miata seats btw), they are all in a comfortable location for me.
need to do some cosmetic work on the bonnet this weekend-then the inspection next week...everything seems to work at this point....lets hope the Lucas Gods keep smiling.
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That really looks good Doug. Very nice work. I know that you will enjoy the car very much with the new power.
tonight i am doing the final prep to paint the bonnet tomorrow....had a few cracks near the headlights to address...common stress point on a Spit unfortunately...and did some adjusting of the underlying bonnet frame to get it to sit right..the gaps were way off and the standard adjustments were not enough....clearly the bonnet had been tweaked in the past.
I'll post some pics tomorrow after i finish spraying...going for the same "Catch me if you can, Yellow".
so, the bonnet is painted, came out ok for an amateur. i have some wet sanding to do but i am satisfied....thoughts on the color? I made it as "noticeable" as possible so those SUV drivers would see me and not run me over like a speed bump. :-)
One issue i wanted to throw out there..i am using the spitfire clutch master-but i only need about half the throw to fully engage the miata clutch....thoughts on fabricating a stop for under the pedal? the miata master is not a possibility-the mechanism is totally different.
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I welded a nut to the side of my clutch pedal, and threaded a carriage head bolt into it, pointing up. I set it where I wanted it and have a second nut on the bolt to use as a jam nut to lock it in place.
not a bad suggestion-i'll take a look this weekend and see if that is the direction i want to go.
Congrats on the successful install, Doug! I have a '76 Spit that I'm putting a '94 1.8 Miata engine/transmission into. Glad to see that there are others here paving the way for me :) I'm actually de-converting my car *gasp* from Ford 5.0 power! I'll make my own thread here before too long. I just received the title in my name after a long process, so I now feel comfortable moving forward with the build.
Quick question -- did you make the stock Spitfire gauges work with the Miata swap? If so, would you mind giving some quick detail as to how you did it? Sorry if you already covered this; if so, I missed it.
Thanks!
-Winston
Winston-I did get the triumph gauges working....well, all except the speedo, though I have a plan for that for the next time I take the trans cover off. I'll find my wiring diags for the tach and water-they were pretty simple. I know the water gauge was as simple as plugging it into the sensor at the rear of the intake on the 1.6 engine. The problem is though-the miata runs a bit hotter than a spit engine by design so the gauge was dam near at max before the fan would kick in. It was giving me a heart attack so I bought a new gauge from Vicky brit that had real numbers on it up to 250. It came with a new sensor which you do need to use.....that is the biggest pain, getting the old one out and putting in the new.
Fuel gauge- no change
Tach-I'll post tomorrow
Speedo- the jury is out for now
I am thinking of adding an oil pressure gauge since the engine has the sensor there...
Doug
Thanks in advance, Doug. Wiring is not my strong suit, though this project is forcing me to learn :) I'm interested to hear what you have in mind for the speedo. That certainly seemed to be the most difficult to adapt.
I support adding an oil pressure gauge. Most important gauge you can have, in my opinion -- but that's racer mentality for you.
for wiring in the ECU and trimming the miata harness..you definitely will need some strong wiring diagram "interpretation" skills...here is a link that i used-printed out and made notes on the margins as i went along tracing circuits....it is a grungy, greasy mess now, but was invaluable.
http://www.madracki.com/miata/images/wiring/90diag.pdf
i believe there is similar ones for other years...as i found-the haynes manual has alot of mistakes in it.
The Miata Garage had some similar, great information, pictures and diagrams:
http://www.miata.net/garage/
doug
Tach Wiring...it is really simple-hard part is routing the wires and splicing into or replacing the original spit ones (and of course getting at the back of the tach)
excuse the drawing-i am not a CAD person.....
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Great information, Doug. Thanks a bunch!
The madracki.com diagrams are great. That's what I am using for my swap. For others that may be interested in a Miata swap, here is a direct link to the various diagrams from 1990-2000:
http://www.madracki.com/miata/wiring.html
Anyone know where the madracki.com site went?
taken down by owner, I expect...
but you can find some of that old content archived here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20111025095811/http://www.madracki.com/miata/index.html
Looks like the Turbo Miata guys (or somebody they know) saved the Madracki site's Miata stuff, including the diagrams:
http://y8spec.com/wiring/
Hey Nice lookin conversion. Im doin the same thing at the moment. I managed to get the motor behind the rack and as low as possible while keeping the shifter about the same.
Did you manage to marry the spitfire speedo to the mx5 box?
Would love to ask a whole other bunch of questions too if that's cool. The most important is "Does it go extreeeeemly quick??"
As that's what Im hoping.
Cheers.
Aiden,
let me dig into my notes...i had written up how i hooked up the speedo-it was an adaption of parts from both cables...a bit of a pain in the butt.
does it go fast...... you'll see.....i still get a rush when the miata power really kicks in above 3k....it is like a turbo rush...
i haven't tryed a "top speed" test as the front end get a bit light(even with the front end lowered) above 90....but i would estimate it could do 120+ if i got it on a track....
feel free to PM me with any other questions....i have it in the garage for the winter and am planning some additional work on it...
Wondering real quick about this, did you use the original harness with the ecu mated in or an adapted miata harness.
I used both....the original spitfire wiring for lights, horn, radio, etc. the Miata harness for engine, fuel, cooling, charging.batt. You do have to morph.connect them for ignition key and to power the spit harness. I put the ecu in the passenger footwell, the fuse box and relays in the original battery box. I relocated the batt to the trunk.
The wiring was the most difficult part of the conversion.....
Doug,
I am at the start of the same swap. Was curious if you had any closer pictures of your motor mounts/steering shaft clearance with the exhaust manifolds? Seems as if I have a pretty good conflict with the steering shaft right at the flange.
Any help would be appreciated.
i'll post some better pics this weekend and some measurements in relation to some common frame items for you. I had a rough idea of the location and shape of the mounts based on the article in the magazine, then used stiff cardboard templates to get the location and angles right before I fabricated the mounts to weld on....I necessitated many trial fits and banged knuckles before I was confident to weld in the brackets....and some fun maneuvering of the engine on the final lowering onto the mounts-but it was well worth it. the clearances are DAMN tight with the manifold and steering shaft.....
d
Also-I believe I did do some grinding of that portion of the flange just to give a small amount of extra room....I didn't have to take off too much or have an impact on the integrity of the flange joint itself.
Hi. New to the forum, so sorry for the late post. I have started assembling the parts needed for ,y own Miata engine swap for my 79 Spitfire. I have an pretty good idea of what parts I will need, but my main absence of knowledge is in the wiring. Could you guys please tell me what wiring needs I will need to get my project running. I have the ECU and all bits of wiring from the behind the dash and engine compartment - but I know I dont need ALL of it. ANY help will be much appreciated. Will add photos after I have all the pieces gathered and ready to go. Thanks.
Doug,
Any more pics of your Spitfire?
Dan
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Barry,
I started with the complete Miata wiring harness and took off what was not necessary (much more tossed aside than used).
I had a couple questions about motor mounts - here is what I did. Note that I think the engine is still just a bit high 1/4-1/2". I am going to try to notch the oem mounts where they mount to the engine to drop it a bit. Note also that my car had some frame rail issues that were fixed that could have inhibited getting the motor down further. I also thought I read that the angle of the mazda mounts are 60 degrees, but I measure them at around 55 degrees.
Ryan
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I would try to modify the frame brackets first Ryan.
The reason for that is that it's a PITA to modify the mount every time that you have to change it.
Not a big deal, but, the more stock parts that you can retain. The happier you'll be down the road.
(Imagine changing a mount in the motel 6 parking lot of, "I just want to get outta here" Alabama)
Live like you mean it.
Fred
Sorry for the delay-work interferes with the important stuff. I agree with Ryan-start with a Miata harness and remove what you don't need....I would say about 1/2 the harness is not needed(AC, lights, horn, etc)...use the existing spit wiring for all the other stuff except engine management....you will need to merge the 2 in a few places-fuse box, ignition, alternator-but it is pretty straightforward(but time consuming). I am attaching pics that show the locations of the mounts.
mine are very similar to what Ryan has...you can see by the pics the location on the frame on both sides....essentially right in line with the lower suspension pivot/mount. the clearance on the driver side between the mount and the steering column and the exhaust flange are TIGHT..i did grind down the flange some to ease my mind.....at some point I may try to fabricate a new exhaust system and move the flange further down...but that is for a future burst of energy....
photos to follow as soon as I can shrink the files in size...
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the last 2 pics are of the passenger mount...sorry the quality isn't better...but you get the idea of the location as well as how tight it is on the driver side.
Hey Doug, glad to see this thread active again.
For the other guys, I got my swap done this past spring, took 3 months, but lots to do to pretty it up.
Finally got enough stuff together to put up a website...
This takes you right to the technical stuff, bypassing all the chaff.....
http://stevew10.wix.com/spit16#!blank/d4a4m
Still tonnes of details and info to share and I'll get back at it in March.
Hope it helps.
Steve
PS: Dan Patrick's article is there as well (you can get it through the Links page)
Guys - this helps tremendously!! Thanks to all of you. Mine officially begins this weekend - pulling the Triumph power plant out and starting the prep work on the frame. Luckily, I kinda like the hood scoop look - so I don't mind it being a bit too tall. So, hope you all don't mind the questions- sure I will have more. 🙂👍. Joe.
Oh yeah, noticed you guys were talking about the gauges. Everyone using the Spitfire gauges? I was thinking I may install the Miata individual gauges into the Spit's physical gauge bodies OR just use the entire Miata instrument panel. Advice?
I used the spitfire gauges....I put in a different water temp gauge-more granular readings, but same size as the original and black face...so looks close to the original style. the tach is easy to wire in, as is the fuel gauge...the speedo is the biggest challenge and one I have not surmounted at this point....there is just not enough room at the frame to tap off the trans.....without having to notch the frame too much in my opinion.....I use my garmin/phone as a speedo when I need it. someday when I feel ambitious i'll fully research a speedo that connects directly do one of the wheels.
Just added some more stuff to my site about Turret Modification, Transmission Modifications and Shifter Relocation, and Propshaft.
As for gauges, I quickly had a look at mounting the Miata guts into the Spit housings. I think it's doable, and would be pretty cool, but will take a fair bit of work.
Like Doug, I found the Miata cable coming out of the Tranny is a nuisance.
Part of my plan was some cool new gauges from SpeedHut http://www.speedhut.com/
20% off sale now until the end of March.
I just ordered them last week so I'll be using a remote pulse generator mounted at the differential.
Something I read alluded to the notion that the later Miata pulse generators (VSS - Speed Sensor) actually fit into the earlier transmissions and will work. I'm looking into that, including if there is room even for that at the frame, but just in case I ordered the Sender from SpeedHut.
If you want a laugh, have a look at how I dealt with it for my first season :) .....
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=2C71FA3E28B5FEC3!724&authkey=!AF41tXUIxQ_X954&ithint=video%2cmp4
Oh, and that horrific sound is the fuel pump mounted in the boot and reverberating like crazy; can't wait to fix that!
All the best with the build Joe
Personally I wouldn't really like the entire instrument cluster from the Miata in the Spit, but I've seen a TR 6 with a Corvette panel, so what do I know.
I thought I took some images of the gauge comparisons... here's the Spit temp gauge beside the guts of the Miata gauge.
The PC board is actually very simple, just a few resistors if I recall. Not unreasonable to modify that, but just not sure it's worth the effort.
All the best.
Steve
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Course, the other problem is lighting. The Miata gauge uses plastic pieces to direct light to specific areas of the gauge.
Again, might work, but likely a challenge to make it happen.
Steve
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Just rolled the miata donor car into the garage. Going to strip it down and determine just how far I want to take this project - all the way? Whole drivetrain and suspension? Not sure I'm up for the rear end swap - looks daunting - but I figure sooner or later I will end up doing it. So, might as well just do it now. Still plenty of prep work to do on the Spit - and I guess the body will have to come off for the rear end work. Well, here it goes...will add some photos later today. Thanks for the advice re the gauges - IF ever I get to that point, Im probably just gonna buy a universal kit and be done with it - ha!
Good luck with it Joe, we found it quite a lot of fun. Hopefully my site will be of help.
I've been looking at rear suspension as well. It would be a much larger task than the engine/tranny swap and you might end up with a poorer than stock set-up. I'm running a GT6 diff right now (love the 3.27 gears) and just bought a back-up this past winter. If I ever decide to turbo the 1.6, I'll be looking at a different diff. but until then the Spit handles pretty well, so long as I'm gentle and don't bust open that rear end I'll be smiling.
Just got my Speedhut gauges last week, one minor issue with colouring, but they are really good over there, so it will be quickly resolved. Their gauges will solve your speedo problem before it even begins! :)
Have fun,
Steve
http://stevew10.wix.com/spit16#!blank/d4a4m
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Yeah, it's a project! Ha. Think sometimes I like working on them better than driving them. Smh.
Okay - progress. I've kinda went in a different direction. I'm going to keep the Miata "everything" and attach/build the Spit body to the subframes. I have a tail section of a Spit body from a parts car and it fits pretty good. Will definitely need some modification and some fender enhancement for the 15in wheels BUT I actually like that!! So, if I can post sime pics I will but the site keeps saying they are too big. If there is an insurmountable obstacle going this way please let me know now. The front will just have to be fabricated for the hood and strut supports - tubular frame work. But I really think this is going to work!! So, what is the consensus??
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Wow, I think that would be something else!
Personally I think it will be 10x the work, and you'll have issues with front shock towers, cutting a lot of the Spit back end to make room for the rear subframe (although it seems to fit pretty nicely in the images, orrrr are you trying to fool us by sitting it closer to the camera!? :) ), and also with the PPF (Power Plant Frame) maybe reducing the space for seats. The whole thing may need to be widened to accommodate all that Miata stuff.
In secret, I hope you go for it, I'd love to see how things go.
Either way, I'm following that build.
I see upper and lower A arms so the shocks should be able to be modified to work.
Lot of Locost builders use Miata front suspension parts.
Interesting approach. I'm sure you recognize that the rigidity of the connection between front and rear suspensions is very dependent on the structure between the two, and the more you can spread out that structure the stiffer it is for any given weight.
Jim
Joe
Try using the PIXresizer it allows you to size the pictures so they will be accepted.
Lots of great projects and ideas hear.
Cheers
Dan
Thanks Dan - will try it. But although I have made progress - The photos wouldn't show much - but will still take them when I return home in a couple of days. Progress I have made includes the shortened driveshaft and the PPF being shortened and reinstalled - with a small amount modification - but it works! Next step is merging of the miata body (cut out trunk section which includes the strut supports) to the Spit body. Will explain my plans with photos on the next post - and hope to hear more ideas from you guys as I am flying blind on this project. And I really appreciate the support you all have already expressed.
Hey everyone,
Been a while since I have posted but there is some news to catch up for those interested. Have been delayed due to personal matters and home projects, etc. - y'all know how it is; however, I have made some progress. The rear end with the Miata shock towers installed is done, the PPF is done, and the exhaust has been shortened and re-installed. The measurements are turning out very well so far - although until the body is actually on the chassis nothing is certain. The photos from the previous posts show the wheels/tires fitting very well under the rear fenders - well, with the shock towers in place the measurements look like the tires are actually going to protrude from the fenders by about 1.5-2.0".
I believe someone has already pointed out that a portion of the trunk area will need to be removed to fit the subframe - this IS true and is my next task - but from the looks of it - I am hopeful it will be less than I initially expected. I would post some photos, but there is really nothing new to see at this point - it basically looks like a Miata without it's body (which is what it is, just a bit shorter). I'm hoping to get the trunk cut this week/wkend and have the body placed on it again - those photos will definitely be posted. Just wanted to let you guys know I haven't given up. Thanks.
Also, noticed several posts regarding Spit conversions and even another whole drivetrain conversion (Jag) - anyone know how to search for these to get them into a group together ( and EASIER to find)? That would be great! Need all the advice I can get.
Well, just got home and did a quick measurement. A LOT of the area behind the seat and wheel wells is going to have to come out - but too far to turn back now. Hahaha! Remain calm and carry on, right?!
Hey guys I know this is old...but I absolutely love what is going on...I do have a question, I have planned to use a mx-5 drivetrain on my mk1 spitfire... any advice? I noticed everybody else uses the slightly newer spitfire. I have a mx-5 parts car at my disposal and an already gutted spitfire. Thanks in advance
it should work fine.....the dimensions are essentially the same-it all depends on how you want to mount the drivetrain and how you handle the wiring. I recommend you read all the articles you can find on this type of swap-I used an article in the Spitfire & GT6 magazine as my starting point for the engine mounting....but decided on a few changes based on the depth of engineering(and frame cutting) I was willing to do.
That's the same article that inspired me Doug!
With Dan's permission I posted it on my site as well.
http://stevew10.wixsite.com/spit16/blank-uya6d
I think he was pretty ground-breaking back then and am indebted to him for sharing. (he's a very nice guy, we've discussed a few issues through email)
Steve
that article was my inspiration also.....just as an FYI...I sold the Spitfire several months ago...but, I bought a TR7 droptop and dropped a Buick V6 in it....it was a much easier swap as there are several kits out there that make it easy. I must admit, the amount of extra room in the TR7 compared to the Spit is like night and day....no more rubbing shoulders with someone in the passenger seat. i'll have to start a new thread on my adventures with this new project. It is QUITE fast with the V6..hehehe.
Joe! You still out there?
Any progress on this?
Steve
Hey guys. Finally made it back with some news on my project. Although I have been keeping up with you all's projects and they look great! If you recall, I started with a 78 - and actually came pretty close to getting it on the road but I went TOO FAR with some body modifications and needless to say - it went completely sideways! And ended up beyond salvation. However, during my trials with the 78, I came across a 63 which was actually FREE (if that tells you anything - and it should lol). Anyway, I decided to just go with a straight swap of the drivetrain and be done - BUT I did end up fitting the Miata differential into the Spit frame. It required pieces from both frames and a set of custom made axles - but it's in. It uses coil over shocks instead of the leaf spring. All that required some cutting which I wasn't extremely happy about - but I wanted that rear end. Im using the miata hubs, the miata wiring harness, and clutch and brake systems. Only thing is no power steering and no power brakes - I learned to drive in a 1970 Chevy Longbed so I know what to expect. Anyway, frame is basically done, engine is in, and it's time to start on the body. The true test will obviously be when I get it on the road and try it all out - hopefully, it (and me) will all come back in one piece. Lol!
Apparently, my photos are too big to attach - not sure how to fix that - but will see what I can do when I return home.
And was just looking back at some of the previous posts regarding advice I received on my failed attempt - you guys were dead on. It was WAY TOO MUCH work and modifications with front towers, etc just could not be worked out and keep any kind of integrity in the body. With the 63, Im am very happy with the results to date. Again, will see what I can do on the pics.
Joe / Barry, I don't know which it is?
Anyway, fabulous to see you back. And although maybe not the most successful project, I for one, appreciate the effort you expended; still really good to know.
Congrats on the '63, I hope it's more mechanical than rust that brought the value down.
I considered the Miata diff, but really don't like the gearing. Australia got stuff closer to what I'd like, but still too low. I know it does work pretty well in the Miata, but with a few hundred pounds less on the Spit, I really like the idea of about 3.54.
Regardless, I'm excited to see how you did that diff and all of the rear end; sounds great! Especially the Coilover set-up, but I'm guessing you had to go into the boot for mounting locations?
Anyway, great to see you back, look forward to seeing more on the project.
Steve
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Here it is. Maybe hard to see - but basically, I used a second shock tower from the second frame. I will add more pics as I can get them resized. Joe.
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And unfortunately Steve, it's rusty. 😩
Joe, this looks really cool.
Sorry to hear about the rust, but really like the way you're thinking with the suspension.
That's similar to my train of thought, and of course there have been many before us with the same starting point.
At first I thought that the plates you mount the diff to might not be enough, however, they're really not bearing any vehicle weight, just the diff, so should be good.
Wishbones look like good geometry, I'm thinking to somehow get the coilover mount inside the lower A-arm. I know lots of cars have them outside, but it's a goofy hang-up of mine.
Did you have to cut up the tub at all to fit in the second row of rear lateral framing?
Really nice to see this. (thumbs up emoticon!)
Thanks Steve. Means a lot coming from you considering I have been studying your website and copying as best I could - your site made the transition to the 63 much easier - that's absolutely true. Yes, unfortunately it did require cutting into the cabin area but not as much as I first thought - but still hated doing it. Due to the placement of the springs, I had to cut just into the base of the rear deck by about an half inch. Springs could have probably fit on the inside of the lateral framework with professionally designed A arms. Honestly, I just went with what I thought I could do safely and with least cost.
I figured you may have had to, but it definitely looks close.
I've been thinking about cutting a swath out of that area, specifically the vertical part and moving it forward; of course I think that that part contributes much to strength so hopefully I could recreate that strength further forward. That would reduce the area available behind the seat, but make more room for the suspension. Could even cut a bit more out front and then weld that in below the gas tank, or just fab something similar. Just thinking out loud.
But if you just cut a bit off the corners and managed to sneak that new frame assembly in, that is simpler and likely stronger than I could do.
Keep it up Joe, looking forward to whatever you're willing to share.
Need some wiring help!! PLEASE!! Running, moving, stops @ but this wiring!! GEEZ!!! How can I identify which wires I can delete AND fan wiring. Trying to attach photos if I can get them smaller.
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Hey Joe,
This is what I put together for mine...
Can be found here as well....
https://stevew10.wixsite.com/spit16/electrical
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Hey all. Does anyone know how to get in touch with Doug? I'm actually thinking about picking up the miata spitfire he built, and I wanted to speak to him about it and other pitfalls he happened to come across, and possibly purchase his notes and diagrams from him incase something went wrong, so I'd have a place to start. If anyone has his contact information, I'd greatly appreciate it. It seems like he hasn't been active here in a long time.
Thanks!
Is there a full schematic of the 1.6 Miata wiring harness that is needed to install the a 93 Miata engine to a spit that any laymen can read and understand, PLS
i see my beast is up for sale again on NJ Craigslist. Funny to see it up for sale every so often. it seems to be a bit worse for wear then when i sold it.....This is Doug under a new login.
This one?
https://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/d/paterson-1978-triumph-spitfire-classic/7092239722.html
$4500 seems a good price.
i sold it several years ago for $3,000.....if they did what they said, particularly rebuilding the exhaust it might be a good deal. It could use a paint job at some point. glad to see it's still alive and kicking. That Miata engine and tranny in it really transformed the car. i hope all my wiring diagrams are still with it-or someone will be in for fun if something goes out!