I would really like to convert to 4X100 PCD. The MGB hub is not a very good candidate for redrilling. BMW, Honda, Mazda, Nissan, Saturn, & Toyota all had models with this pattern. Surely, somebody's hub is close enough to be made to fit on a MGB spindle. Problem is, where to find the numbers to do the comparison?
Darned good question Carl. For most of the hub swaps that are known, (Monte Carlo, etc.) the guys who did it did an actual comparison with junkyard parts. You might want to just take a stroll around your local yard.
Jim
Carl, Might be tough. 4X100 is a newer lug pattern. All I've seen are sealed bearings with splined FWD three bolt mount hubs. You may have to use a older style 4X4.25 or 4X4.5 and drill the 4X100 inbetween. Maybe change the races and bearings in a older Falcon or Mustang hub. I'll look around and check. Edit: I found it! You want 68-70 Mustang 6 cylinder drum brake 4 lug or 70-72 Maverick or Comet 6 cylinder drum brake 4 lug. Same bearings as MGB. May decrease track width 3/4" on each side if the same as my 5 lug Mustang hubs. Have a machine shop drill 4X100 between the 4X4.5". You would have to go to a slip on 4X100 rotor (Honda). If 22mm thick you can use the small Toyota Calipers. For the rear axle use wire wheel hubs with splined part cut off and drill 4X100 between the stock 4X4.5". Lay the new front hub(Ford) next to the MGB one to figure offset on the rotor needed. You may have to go to the smaller tie rod also. It would be easier to just use the spacer adapter from 4X4.5" to 4X100 pattern.
Okay, some are FWD. BMW, Miata, Opel Kadet & GT, Volvo 440 should be RWD
Can the MGB spindle not be machined so a sealed bearing will work?
Carl, I don't know about the RWD BMW or Volvo but maybe you can modify the Miata like Art did the RX7 hub. I think he bored and sleeved it to use the tapered races and bearings of a Mustang II. PM Art on the details. You would still have to figure out brakes.Here are pictures of Miata hubs and FWD hubs.
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Jim, I am familiar with the bolt on hubs. In fact, I have one that I need to replace on my Silverado 4X4 SOON. :)
That Miata hub looks like it should just slide right on. Use a slip on rotor. I know, toooo easy.
I was hoping to find a lot of specs sheets with measurements like this one for comparisons:
http://recstuff.com/4bolthighspeedpre-greasedtrailerhub-1350lbscapacity-ezlube.aspx
First place to start looking is bearing sizes on the old and the replacement candidate. If both the inner and outer bearings are the same size or can be drilled out to match, you will be in the ballpark. Go to a website like NAPA, punch in the car you want to look at, and see what bearings are used. I looked into switching hubs for the TR8. I have sets of both BMW 2002 and BMW 320i on the shelf and compared them to TR8. I decided it was just easier to keep the stock hubs and offset drill the holes for the wheel studs. The now larger holes use a larger knurled head stud. Stock TR8 is 4X95.25 and uses roughly a .47" hole. The new holes are .6375 or something like that, and drilled on a 4X100. The new larger hole completely encompasses the old hole with a different center. The hardened studs are from a Dodge truck and use .5" lugnuts instead of 12mm. Now my TR8 and my 2002 can run the same race wheels, and so far it's worked out well. Only issue is the limited amount of low offsets wheels available in 4X100, since 4X100 is mostly a FWD fitment. If you want measurements for the BMW hubs let me know. 4X108 works better for RWD offsets, but that was too big for me to go with the stock hubs. Hubs with that bolt pattern might be a better option for the B.
So how close is the TR7 hub to MGB? Same bearings maybe? similar offset?
Jim
I used Rockauto wheel bearing specs to compare MGB bearings to the Mustang hubs. TR7 look smaller than Midgets.
Here is a good picture of Miata spindle with RX7 hub adapter and hub. Notice the straight spindle.
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MGB inside bearing ID is 1.25". Can't seem to find ID of Miata front bearing. It seems you replace the hub as a unit. If you get Miata hubs and the diameter is larger you could sleeve the MGB spindle as above picture. If Miata hub is smaller you would have to turn MGB Spindle down. In both cases use inner spacer where the MGB spindle tapers smaller.
The Mustang the Monte-Carlo (Mid size GM) used the exact same bearings as the MGB, the only difference was in the spacing, where the MGB had the bearings closer together. So it is likely that almost all small to mid size domestic cars of that era used the same bearings too. Not sure if that helps though since a 4 x 100 pattern might be hard to find, but you might find one you could redrill. By the time you do that and re-bore the bearing seat for the right width though it isn't exactly a simple solution.
Using a hub with a cartridge bearing might work OK. Chances are good the bore will be metric though so matching the MG inner spindle diameter may be hard unless you have adapter sleeves made for it. That might give you more leeway on the offset though. Cartridge bearing life used to be much shorter than conventional spindle bearings, though I suspect they've gotten better.
Carl, if you aren't in a super hurry, we might collaborate on a couple sets of billet aluminum hubs.
Jim
Jim, You might find a ready market in dual bolt pattern hubs. Say 4 3/4" and 4 1/2" 5 lug and 4 1/2" and 4X100 4 lug to fit MGB spindle. I mentioned the 4 lug Mustang,Maverick and Comet hub above. If it has the same offset as the V8 hubs I have track width will be narrower. I use the stock MGB rear seal flared out slightly. I use Intrepid 12mm studs in front and 98-2002 Camaro Firebird Corvette 12mm studs in rear. Front studs use stock Mustang hole size,rear use 15/32" hole. Pull in with nut and washers. Would be beneficial to use narrower wire wheel rear axle for more room for wider rims. Of course you would eliminate the bump stop hump. Stock MGB rear hub is too thin to use 4X100 pattern between stock holes. Wire wheel hub is thicker and would work if you remove the splined part.
Carl, Early 80's Honda Accord and Civic rear hubs use same outer bearing as MGB(BR2) and a size smaller inner bearng(BR8)1.98" OD race.MGB has (BR6) 2.328" OD race inner. Maybe enough material to bore out to MGB(BR6) race size. Rear hubs on FWD cars are free spinning,not splined like front. Lightweight hubs that have large holes between lugs.
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"Jim's" and clan, perhaps the Monte Carlo spindle you refer to is GM "A" and "F" body,1964-1974, cars like Skylark, Cutlass etc. Popular in aftermarket, forged, good value with 8.825" overall height, BJ taper, top/bott measure .63"/big ends. Steering arms bolt on with 4.125" bc's.,(front/rear steer). Good Luck, roverman.
QuoteEarly 80's Honda Accord and Civic rear hubs use same outer bearing as MGB(BR2) and a size smaller inner bearng(BR8)1.98" OD race.MGB has (BR6) 2.328" OD race inner.
Thanks for the numbers, Jim. That gives me something to go on.
QuoteCarl, if you aren't in a super hurry, we might collaborate on a couple sets of billet aluminum hubs.
No hurry. Too much to do before the V8 Meet, anyway.
We'll talk about it.
Jim
Hmmm.
QuoteOn MGB spindles I'm using 64-66 Mustang hubs
What does the backside of those hubs look like? Possible to redrill to 4x100 if any can be found?
Carl, Yes. I'm using 64-66 Mustang V8 5 lug hubs,you would use 68-70 6 cylinder 4 lug hubs (also 70-72 Maverick or Comet). You can buy them new from Mustang repro catalogs. Last year they were $70 each. I got mine from a local wrecking yard for $25 each(car-part.com).You could just drill 4X100 pattern between the 4X4.5 Mustang pattern. Look above in this thread for more info on wheel studs,track width etc.
Hmmm, wonder if the Mustang V8 hubs would fit Healey spindles ?
Nope, Different bearings. You may be able to bore/sleeve (copy Healy specs)in Mazda RX7Turbo II hubs.
Fred, Which Healey ? Jensen is tiny. Clan, Overall width is 3.0" and od is 5.75". Looks "iffy" on redrilling pattern between existing (5) on 4.5" bc. studs. "Might" go with larger dia. shoulder studs to offset bore existing holes/changing bc. Your results may vary. Good Luck, roverman.
Anybody thinking about swapping out hubs might want to look over this Wilwood page. It lists all the aluminum replacement hubs they sell, what they fit, what bearings they use and most importantly bearing spacing. http://www.wilwood.com/Hubs/HubList2.aspx As long as you find one that uses the same bearings or smaller, you can machine the aluminum hub to the right specs. Pretty sure they all start from the same blank. I'm playing with the idea of using the Mustang 65-66 Mustang V6 or Mopar a-body 9"drum spindle application hubs on a TR8.
Todd, Excellent find! Do you mean 65-6 V8 or I6?
These are my three options. http://www.wilwood.com/Hubs/HubList2.aspx?subname=&minorname=&bc=&bearset=A4&dimm= The TR8 uses A4 and A1 bearings. The common upgrade is to drill out the stock hub to accept an A2 bearing and then put a sleeve over the spindle to make up the difference in the inner race. The bearing spacing(measurement M) on the wedge needs to be around 2.3", so the bearing pocket will need to be machined a little deeper for the bearing to ride on the spindle properly and not hang over. I'm leaning towards the A body hub designed for vented rotors and a set of 12.19"X.81" vented rotors. You can get those hubs with a 5X4.5 wheel bolt pattern that will match the Ford 8.8 rear end. One of my TR8s has Rover SD1 struts and hubs. Those hubs use A6 and A2 bearings, so finding a hub for that car will be much easier. There are a ton of American cars that used those bearings.