My TR4A needs attention in the rear shock department. Coil overs appear to be the best option, but the Revington kits are waaay to expensive. $669 at TRF!
Does anybody know what shocks they use? It doesn't look like it would be that hard to fabricate your own, if you had the right specs for shock travel.
I remember seeing a RATCO kit a while ago, but can't find them now.
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Dan,
I have the Revington kit. I will take one of the shocks out....check the amount of travel. When I installed them..the shock travel was not that much. The shock has about 12 or so settings that can be set using a allen wrench. I don't know if these will work on the TR4 unless you have the IRS suspension. I think it would be fairly easy to fab the brackets and other parts....then just purchase the shock replacement. You might be able to purchase right from Revington (shock). Your spring needs to be at lease in the 450lbs range for the shocks to not take all the stress. Maybe I can scan the instuctions and post them here.
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My post shows how this was all installed.
http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?3,452,page=1
Calvin
Calvin, that is awesome! Thanks!
The TR4A (mine) does have IRS, identical to a stock TR6, the only difference is the wheel and tire size.
You had the body off the frame when you did your conversion. How hard do you think it would be to do it with the body on?
The AVO model number give an indication of length, with the first number being the open length and the second number the closed length, e.g. 140/95 is 14 inches open and 9.5 inches closed. Do you see number on the shox?
I still need to pull the shock out to find the model number... or I can E-mail Revington for the model number of the shock...just thought I was going to be off today.
As for installing the coil over conversion with the body on....I believe it could be done. The hard part to install would be the shock mount round plate (welding in)...that has an offset hole so the shock threads won't interfear with the body. The round piece of steel with the hole thats offset (In pic that has the whole kit above)....I put on top of the spring tower and welded from the top side. Might be able to do this with the body on. Both the trangle pieces of metal to strenghen the spring tower ...should be able to weld in with the body on.
I would remove the trailing arm or let it hang down as far as possible (would need to remove half shaft & hub assembly, lever shock etc.
A cheap way if you are still using your original lever shock to get a better ride...get the uprated spring for the valve shock. I used them in my TR250 and the ride was tight in the rear.
If you are using the rear shock upgrade with KYB, Spax or Monroe.....I used the bracket and ran a lenght of treadsall rod through the trailing arm hole (hole for original lever shock link) and up to the bracket to compress the spring for the coilover kit (compress to get shock mounted on top plate and nut on).
I can't use a lever shock on the passenger side anymore without doing some repair work. The old ones worked loose enough to wallow out the holes, and eventually broke the ear off one side of the shock. The other side has an inch long slot where the hole should be. On the mounting holes, they are somewhat elongated as well. So it looks like the coil-over is the best solution.
I was looking at the photos, and wondering about the crescent shaped plates that go under the springs. Do those go into some kind of recess, or would it be possible to use a one piece ring there? I was thinking that if you could do that it wouldn't be that hard to cut those out with a pair of holesaws. Suppose you used a blank for the bottom, again cut with a holesaw and then notched for the protrusions in the LCA and the center hole drilled for a stud mount shock. Do you think that would work? Seems like it'd be a little easier to make.
Welding in that top disc on the bottom side instead of the top should work. Might not exactly be easy but if the car was jacked up at a steep angle that should help.
Jim
The cresent shape plates that go under the springs in the trailing arm spring hole.....If you took a dremel tool with a mini grinding wheel...you could grind off the casting and make it flat...you could use a full ring in there...also on the bottom of the trailing arm grind off the hump on both sides and make it flat....a ring mount with the bracket welded on for the bottom of the shock mount would work.
As for the round top piece being welded in from the bottom (for top shock mount).....it will shorten the distance about a 1/4 inch or so between both mounts. I don't think this will cause any problems.
A stud mount shock would work for both ends of the shock...using Jims idea. The hole in the trailing arm for the shock just open up with a rat tail file for shock movement.....could even use the bottom plate for an adjustment for how long the shock was being used...just make some extra blanks(shim rings) and use a flat round plate with a hole in the center for the shock stud on the very bottom.
Calvin
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I think flat metal rings would make the casting area stronger after making it flat on both sides of the trailing arm spring hole.
I believe the TR4A trailing arms don't have those ridges. It looks like maybe they were drain holes or something. Perhaps they discovered water and stuff collecting in the bottom of the spring and added those to the casting. I'll post some pictures in a couple of days, and do some measuring. Can't do it tonight, my daughter has a strings concert.
Old shock
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My trailing arms don't have those ridges to deal with, but if we go with stud mount shocks on both ends, I will need to pull the springs out or remove the bottom plate to change the shocks.
Maximum shock extension 12"
Full compression 8.5"
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Question Dan?
Is the frame holes and threads OK where the lever shock's bolt up? Both side's?
Is the trailing arm OK where the lever shock links bolts in? Both side's?
If all is OK ...Then all you need is a set of lever shocks right?
Naturally that was my first thought. I also have a picture of the shock mount on the frame.
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OK!
Idea!!....think it would be possible to heli-ciol the threads? If that can't be done....how about welding on the bracket for the shock conversion?
I think that could be done....I know it would be kind of a fixed part of the frame (welding the conversion bracket in) but a lower cost way to go. Shocks wouldn't burn a hole in the $$ either.
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I think it would be fairly easy to weld in if everything was out of the way (axles, diff, and e-cable)
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I think the bracket could be made with 1/4" steel if you had mock up of the bracket!
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Your thoughts??
Are there negatives of going to shocks inside the coil springs? I know there are a lot of tube shock conversions available that use those brackets, but I think if I was going to fix the mount holes on the frame I probably would try to find a replacement lever shock on ebay or something. I might even have one somewhere.
The front shocks for a 94-96 S10 2wd match what I need in terms of travel and measurements, 12.25 extended, 8.375 compressed. Using 1/4" plate for the bottom mount shifts everything downward 1/4" to give me the 12" I need for the half shaft not to rest on the frame when the car is jacked up. The only thing being that the rubber stops on the body will be doing more work if I ever bottom out the springs.
I don't have the bumps you have in the aluminum casting, so it looks to be a pretty easy fabrication.
It would be a much bigger pain to weld on the old mount than it would be to weld to the top spring mount.
The coil overs would be the best ride of all.There are some things to consider.
If you have a spring that doesn't have enough spring tension or lbs rating.....and the car bottoms out...the shock may punch out or through the top plate that holds the shock.
http://www.goodparts.com/shop/index.php?categoryID=15
The AVO shocks that come with the kit are 10" fully extended. I used Richard Goods lowering springs that are a little uprated.
I weight about 215lbs...stood on the rear of the frame and moved my weight up and down to see the travel...maybe about an 1" travel at best for the suspension movement.
My thoughts would be that the spring should do most of the work and the shock should do the dampaning.
It would depend on your spring and shock that is used to get the right setup.
Good Luck!! and post your end results.
Dan,
Do you still need the AVO shock model number? How is everything coming along?
I understand that the AVOs are specially made for Revington. I am having the donuts made at the local Career Tech Center, and will do the conversion on May 12-13 at Jim's place in Florence, Ky. I am kind of leaning toward using the Bilsteins. They offer revalving services.
You are probaby right Dan about the AVOs. I was thinking when I need a replacement shock, will need to buy from TRF or Revington myself, and that may be a little steep with $$$.
I hope it all works out, which I'm sure it will between you and Jim, it will work.
So May 12-13th you will be back on the road again with a smoother ride and better handeling TR4A.
Calvin
I can hardly wait. Maybe if we have enough time we can finish the EFI conversion too. We are replacing the Strombergs with a Megasquirt setup.
OH! Megasquirt setup, please post the end results with pictures if you can of both conversions. Those big 4 banger engine's were pretty peppy ( seem to have more torque than the 6 banger). That megasquirt will make that TR4A move "How fun" that will be.
Didn't have time to play with the Squirt, but we got the conversion done!
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Dan,
Glad you "got 'er done", even though we see who's gettin' dirty. ;)
Your brother, Jim, reminds me of someone I used to know that was famous for saying "It's do-able", then he would proceed to actually do it.
Somebody had to take the pictures!
Seriously, Jim can do about anything.
"Awesome" I'm glad it all worked out. Jim you did that with stick weld? That's talent I must say.
Question? Did you do triangle pieces for both sides of the tower (front and back) or just the front?
OK Dan "How does the ride feel now"?
It's always nice to have a brother that can help :-)
The squirter is next.
Ride is waaay better now. We only put the gussets in the front. It would have been a teeny triangle in the back, and if it needs it we can put that in without taking it all apart.
As far as the shocks go, I got a cheap set of Gabriels at AutoZone, The problem there is they have about an inch to 1.5" of extra extended length, so when I go airborne, the half shafts will hit the frame. Gotta remember not to go airborne until I get shorter shocks.
It came out pretty good. Naturally there are always small improvements you discover after the design is set, for instance rotating the top plate with the hole as far to the rear as possible would give more spring clearance and allow larger diameter shocks (which would also need more clearance through the bottom mount) but we were pretty pleased with the outcome, especially the quality of the ride with a $17 shock. Pretty hard to beat that.
Thanks for the kind words btw,
Jim
This is a particularly cool photo... and it definitely qualifies for our "People Having Fun with Performance-Modified British Sports Cars" photo contest!
DanBlackwood.jpg
Cool!
It was fun! It is always a blast to hang out in Jim's shop.
If anybody gets the chance, they should do a Roadmaster weekend.
Dan,
I'm interested in a little more detail on this shock-in-coil conversion. Does the centering lip for the spring on the top differential bridge need to be removed for clearance to the top shock donut? Also, could you elaborate a little on the lower shock mount? I see how the Revington design works, but yours seems different. How did the shock mount attach to the circular plate?
Thanks,
Dennis
We used a shock that has the ears on the lower mount. There are two holes in the plate we installed that the shock bolts to. We actually used a holesaw to cut the donut pieces, and the center section was re-used on the top mount. It is welded in place. We did not cut the lip on the top or modify the bridge at all except to weld the round pieces in, which we drilled to accept the stud mount of the shock. We did have to offset the hole for the stud a little for it to clear the body. This created a tighter fit for the tube shock inside the spring. I had a part number for a Bilstein shock that should have the correct travel, but I think the diameter might be a little large. We just bought some Gabriels at Advance Auto and installed them. They have too much travel, so it is best not to go airborne for the time being, until a shock with an appropriate limit can be installed.
The purpose for the plates on the bottom are to strengthen the aluminum trailing arms and provide a solid mount for the ears of the shock. We did have to enlarge the hole in the trailing arm for the shock to fit through. The trailing arm is sandwiched between two 1/4" steel donuts. You may not need the top one. It does raise the ride height 1/4"
Oh, and we did weld a trianglular brace on the bridge too.
Dan,
Aha! That explains it. I was looking for the lower shock mounting to be an "eye" like the Revington kit. I don't particularly care for the mount that revington used that projected so far below the trailing arm. This gives me something else to think about.
Thanks,
Dennis
I think Ratco has a kit for shocks inside the coil as well