Hi all, I'm sending some pics fresh from the shop. My mechanic, Bobby V, is working on my car and I will have to make some decisions soon about wheel size, and rear axel ratios. Any advice would be appreciated.
Marc
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Having trouble sending my pics. The pic that made it is a motor mount. These are my headers. I'm still working on the rest of my pics.
Marc
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I'll try this again
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I'm hoping to get it ready for the next V8 meet.
Marc
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Marc,
Earlier this month, Jack, Tom and I stopped in at the body shop to see the progress of your conversion. - it's coming along nicely. Let's hope that it gets the required attention for a timely completion for the Wisconsin show.
I like the way the headers come together where they go through the inner fender. I have a set pre-made for the MG/302, but they requrie a bigger hole. I've been toying with ideas to make it look better but may not get to it before Wisconsin. I've been toying with the idea of painting the under-side & outside of the car but leaving the engine bay & front inner fenders in primer so I can get my car done enough for Wisconson, then change some things like that afterward.
I also like your motor mounts although they look a bit light from the pics. What gauge are they?
Thanks Graham,
I appreciate the good wishes. Now that the headers are going to the ceramic coaters the motor is coming out to be detailed and we start on the back end. Bobby V told me your input was very helpful. Do you know of anyone that uses different size wheels on the front and back? We are thinking of moving the rear springs inboard to allow for wider wheels in back, but the front may not handle that size. What rear end ratio do you think is best? Bobby is planning to have a custom gas tank fabed and along with the flaming river steering rack we are doing a few different things. I hope you stop by before the next WDMGC meeting in Windsor.
Thanks again,
Marc
Marc, for custom fuel tank check with Todd Budde. He makes a really nice aluminum tank for the B. It's set up with an internal fuel pump, baffling, AN fittings, sender, etc. Ready to bolt in for fuel injected applications. He'll also do it w/o the fuel pump if you're going carburated. I just got mine delivered yesterday & don't have any pics, but check out this post where Bill Guzman posted some great pics & info...
http://www.mgexperience.net/phorum/read.php?40,747959,747959#msg-747959
Good luck,
Rob
Hi Rob,
I like the position of the headers myself. They are way back in the fender well and out of the way of the wheels and tires. The mounts do look a bit on the thin side, I don't know the gauge, but I'll ask Bobby and get back to you.
Thanks for the info on the gas tank, the one we were going to use was custom and expensive. I'll check this one out and see if it fits the bill.
Good Luck getting ready for the 08 meet,
Marc
Marc,
Using different size rims (and/or tires) for front and back is certainly a subject that many embrace - you could search the "Photo Gallery" articles for those that have done this - Joe Schafer, for instance, runs similar rims but smaller tires on the front. Personally, I prefer the same rim/tire combination to allow tire rotation and have a spare tire w/matching diameter.
On the subject of rear axle ratio, I am running a 3.27 which I find matches best with my 23.8" dia tires and a 0.68 OD T-5 transmission ratio. This translates into 1880rpm@60mph, 2193rpm@70mph, & 2507rpm@80mph, for example.
I suppose that if you plan to use a taller tire, or would like a bit more acceleration capability, a 3.55 ratio might be appropriate. Assuming your T-5 OD ratio is the same as mine, you might find a 3.07 ratio too slow for highway driving. Like most things, it becomes a matter of personal preference.
Hey Marc
Good to see that you are underway.
As to different size wheels and tires I agree with Graham on the ability to rotate tires on a daily driver but on my 4000 mile a year toy I like what makes the car work or look the best. Are you keeping the front 4 bolt pattern? What rear are you going to use in the rear and what pattern on that. I like my 3.42 rear gears but as mentioned above it is preference.
Is the shop near your home, I Have been working in Detroit lately, give a shout.
Joe
Hi Joe,
Its good to hear from you. The shop is in Windsor, over the river , and I don't get there as much as I'd like. Its
frustrating not having the room, time, talent, or tools to do it myself. 3.42 sounds like a great compromise for
power and comfort on the highway. I'm hoping to have a rear wheel with a big offset to get as much rubber to
the road as possible. I love the way your car looks with the Omni flairs but I'm trying to keep the stock look, no flairs. Anyway, the fronts may have to be a different size/offset/width. That leaves me with narrow
choices due to availability of wheels that come in various sizes.
The bolt pattern can be anything I want (according to Bobby V), but I'm going with a Lincoln 8.8 rear with discs
so the pattern will be 5 by ?. The front will have to be changed to match. The next challenge is the rear and the
gas tank. I'm hoping to avoid an expensive custom tank. Rob turned me on to a tank made by Todd Budde,
but I don't know the pricing or availability yet. Any suggestions are appreciated.
Let me know if you're around the 2nd wed of April, its the WDMGC meeting in Farmington Hills. Usually a good
time and meet some more MG nuts. Any new mods on your B?
TTYS
Marc
Marc
I may be around then I will let you know.
As to my progress, well I had and still have a big list, I have been swamped and have had another project ahead of the B so I haven't even touched it yet. At least at this point I am not scrambling to get it back on the road as the weather gets nice (if it ever does) so when it does I will be ready to go for drive:)
Joe
Marc,
If you've decided on a 3.42 ratio for your 8.8, make sure it's available.....3.42 sounds like a GM ratio.
Yep, he'll need to choose either 3.31 or 3.55 for the 8.8 Ford.
3.27:1 should be an easy-to-find option too, I think.. That's what came in my '92 Mustang axle.
Here's a link to Dan Masters' handy Excel gear/speed calculator: http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/chart.xls
Hey Rob ,
How much did that gas tank cost? Were you able to decide where your fittings were placed on the tank?
The fittings in the picture at the MG experience looked to be facing the passenger side, just where
the tail pipe will be going.
Marc
Graham,
I believe you are correct, I will have to decide between 3.27 and 3.55. Are you planning to come over for the
WDMGC meeting next week?
Marc
Marc,
The missus and I will be vacationing and will miss the Detroit meeting but I'll be at the May WDMGC meeting in Windsor - hope to have the car operational by then!
Using Dan's speed/gear calculator might sway you to use the 3.27 axle ratio. First gear is short enough and 3.55 will aggravate the situation - unless your T-5 has a 2.95 first vs the more common 3.35.
So what was wrong with the 3.31 gears?
Anyway, there's some of both 3.27 & 3.31 on Ebay.
My experience has been Todd's pretty flexible on stuff like that -- especially where it does't change the parts he has laser cut or otherwise produced for him. Can't tell you the price because he gave me a deal on a "factory second" (ok, it was a tank he'd inadvertantly welded the top on upside down & then later fixed so I he made me a great deal). I know the standard tank is very reasonably priced -- about $500 set up for EFI including an internal high pressure fuel pump, internal surge tank, & sender + it's pre-drilled to bolt right up to the stock studs. Bolt it in, hook up the lines, and go. Not sure what the cost would be w/o the pump if you're going carburated. But, I doubt you could get a custom tank like this made for for less anywhere else. Give Todd a call & just talk w/him about it is what I'd suggest. His contact info can be found here... http://www.customrodworks.com/contact.html
Todd is also one of our fantastic British V8 vendor sponsors. This is his banner ad:
(http://www.britishv8.org/Sponsors/CustomRodWorks.gif)
When you contact our sponsors, please make sure to tell them you heard about them here!
Sorry Carl, there's nothing wrong with 3.31 gears and essentially they have the same performance as a 3.27 set. Not sure if Ford production used the 3.31 but 3.27 seems widely used and available.
You're probably right on 3.27 availability. There's a lot of Mustangs that came with that gear.
Hi All,
Some bad news, in order to have the car this season I will have to make some compromises. I visited the beast
in Windsor today, and discussed progress with fabricator supreme, Bobby V, and if I want it on budget and in time
I will have to make this a 2 phase project. It was decided that the rear will remain stock, no 8.8 Ford, the wheels
and tires will stay, and unless I break something, it will stay that way until next winter. I'm disappointed but I hope
these measures will get it done in a timely manor.
Marc
Marc
Sorry to hear about the hiccup but I think all conversions go through them. On the good side you will now be able to see what the 3.9 gear behaves like and know what you want for the new rear and not just all of our opinions. I drove my 302 on the stocker it held up better than I would have imagined, you will be fine.
Joe
Doc, hope to see you & your car in Wisc. on the subject of R/E ratios, my 24.1" tires (205-50 X 16) are on Focus wheels. The R/ E was narrowed by Moser Eng. and retained the MG lug pattern. there is also a 1" Alum. spacer with the 4 lug Ford 4 X 4 1/4" used. the 3.55 is great with the T5-Z, but i began by planning for the std Mustang T5 with 3.35 1st gear. the 3.27 or 3.31 would be my choice due to the gearing in the std. Mustang trans. my R/E gears are comparable to Graham's in RPM @ 80mph. Didn't hurt i got 27-30 mpg going to Cleveland last either. our headers seem to exit near the same place, we has to slant the front edge of the floor to turn them to rear. are you going to run the efi? i like you intake plate used to pull the engine. i made a std. plate and them had to make one for the GT 40 style later.
Look like a jam-up job.
SAFETY FASTER!
Hi Kelly,
I'm kind of bummed out, but I had to make this decision or there was no chance of having the Bv8 on the road this season. I'm a bit worried that the rear will hold up, but Joe says not to worry, so....I also got a ride in Joe's beast, and if he didn't kill the rear the way he flogged it then my grandmotherly driving won't do it. Bobby V, told me the only thing I'd probably want to do is start off in 2nd gear, instead of 1st. This should push the project ahead and one obstacle will be a custom fuel tank. I am staying with the EFI, so the tank will have to have a high pressure
fuel pump. The next step is to pull the motor and detail it with paint, new gaskets, plugs and wires and figure out
the water pump situation. It looks like the standard water pump will not fit and the shorty isn't short enough. We
were going to go with an electric, but its the same length as the original. Any advice would be appreciated. I have a set of Miata seats but the one in the B are pretty comfy so I'm leaning toward keeping them. They are also in
decent shape. We're planning to use Dynamat or Hushmat under the new carpeting, boy that stuff is expensive.
I'll probably be heading over to Windsor to see whats happening next week. With the nice weather I have trouble
staying on this side of the river.
I'll keep everyone up to date and take new pics when I can.
Marc
Make a list of every thing you want to do before the V8 Meet. Put an * next to everything you HAVE to do to make the Wisconsin Meet. As the date draws nearer & it really gets down to crunch time (go or no go), it's amazing what moves to the "do before the next V8 meet"!
No reason to be bummed out if you can drive it to the Meet. Even if your windshield is cracked. Again. ;)
Marc
I am not sure what motor you are using (out of what) and I am not sure what Kelly used but I do know that the T-Bird, later mustang and I think the Lincoln have a shorter timing cover - water pump set up. You cant just get the water pump you have to have the whole cover, pump, balancer ect maybe even the oil pan I am not sure but I know it is a considerably shorter set up.
Joe
Marc, you should have enough room with the short nose water pump. It would be hard to mount the motor further forward than most have done -- basically where it straddles the steering rack -- balancer right in front of it & oil pan right behind it (even grinding a little bit of the front lip of the pan for clearance). If that's where it is, you'll be fine -- several others have already done it & the short nose pump fits. Now, that's assuming your radiator is in the further forward location like the later cars -- '77 & later. You can also make some brackets that move the radiator even further forward, but you shouldn't need to.
Joe may be right about the timing cover being different for the short nose water pump, but I don't recall it from when I was researching. You will want the accessory brackets, pulleys, etc. from a short nose car to go with the short pump or things won't line up (unless you're making your own brackets of course). The balancers on the 302 are all 28oz (early engines) or 50oz (later engines). They switched over in '81 if I recall right. Also, I think the 28oz are 3 bolt. The 50oz are 4bolt so the crank pulley needs to match. Beyond the right size, you also need to be sure you have one that'll work with your ignition timing set up. Some have timing marks; some have other mechanisms designed to work with optical or magnetic (I think) sensors. Your EFI may be that type -- Kelly would be way more educated on that than me.
Rob
Rob
The Later Mustang (after the fox body) the T-Bird (mine was a 91) and the Lincoln (I Think) have a shorter set up, the water pump has a complete different bolt pattern than the Mustang (Fox Body) and so it only fits on the shorter timing cover. The intake was also lower on these Models.
How did your cowl turn out are you ok or do you have to widen it out?
Joe
Yeah, I went back & checked my notes... I didn't realize the bolt pattern was different, but I did have a note about needing a different timing cover when switching from long to short nose pump... I didn't have to do that because I picked up a FMS crate 302 that a shop bought for a guy's 55 tbird --- I got it for about 40cts on the dollar when they were liquidating the stuff they'd bought for him when he went through a divorce & couldn't do the project. The motor had been used during some fab work, but never run... still had the FMS packing paper on it.
RE: my project -- I think i'm going to be ok. I'm in California for work -- had to leave for the airport about the time I re-measured & compared to Jim, Jake, & Paul... I'll test fit the windshield & at least one of the fenders to be sure. Worst case I think the amount it pulled in will be small enough that I can fix it w/o major changes to the firewall. Should know by the weekend.
Hi All,
More discussions with Bobby V. The plan is to not use my Miata seats(stock ones are pretty comfortable)
and build a "roll cage" type roll bar with double hoops(1and 5/8 tube), two sets of 2 hoops attached to each other,
going from the rear cross brace and running along my left leg to the fire wall. The time impact should only be 2 days(according to BV). In our early discussions about this project I wanted a car that was fun and safe, this is the safe part. I saw some interesting numbers using the new e3 spark plugs. Anyone have any experience with them? Going back to Canada next week to bring parts and check progress. Will give an update then.
Marc
Hey Marc,
Haven't seen any updates but I have been gone a bunch, hope all is well, give a shout
Joe
don't forget to match counterweights at the flywheel as well. You're probably with a 50oz balancer/50oz flywheel. Joe is right on with the later mustangs, t-birds and lincoln marks for the pump. I think explorer/mountaineer v8s have the short set up - explorers also have a more compact (narrower) serpentine set up - but can be hard to source - the early bronco crowd covet these setups.