What are the lightest wheels you know of? I'm particularly interested in those that come in the 17" variety.
JB
Well, it would have to be a true Magnesium based wheel (rather than Aluminum based)...how about one from a Porsche Carrera.
PorscheCarreraMag.jpg
If you look at wheels on Tire Rack, you can choose to sort them by weight.
Keith's recommendation of the TireRack is a good source - they can also give you a rim/tire package weight.
Attached is a wheel weight chart to give you an idea of some brand sizes & weights......
http://www.miata.net/faq/wheel_weights.html#weight
Some more fuel for the fire......Carbon fibre rims
weds-sport-carbon-fiber-wheel.jpg
CAR_CARBON_MAG_B.jpg
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/wheel-tire-upgrades/82880-list-lightweight-wheels-11.html#post5051843
A typical 17"x 8" rim is listed at 13-14lb
EDIT: Scroll down to post #216 and see a comprehensive listing of OEM and atermarket wheel sizes and weights.
Jim, Not as space age as carbon fiber but, an excellent lightweight wheel.Spendy though. Maybe you can buy direct. http://www.kodiakracingwheels.com/wheels.html
How do you search by wheel weight on tirerack? I've never been able to figure out a way of doing that.
JB
Go into the usual "search for wheels by vehicle", and choose the grid view instead of the one with the car - the button to do that is on the upper left, right above the color of the car. The icon is of a grid of boxes instead of the front half of a car.
Once you're there, look on the left side again and you'll see the option to "sort by". You can also filter out different sizes and colors, and the listing for each wheel gives the offset, weight and backspacing. Much more useful than a pretty picture of a car with wheels on it to people like us!
Here's what it looks like for a 1995 Mustang GT, for example: Tire Rack (http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/results.jsp?filterSize=19&filterFinish=All&filterBrand=All&filterWeight=All&autoMake=Ford&autoModel=Mustang+GT&autoYear=1995&autoModClar=&sort=Weight&filterNew=All&filterSpecial=false)
For tire weights, go to the tire you're thinking of and select "Specs". Voila.
The source of a lot of the wheel weight information found on forums and the like is wheelweights.net. Keep in mind that it won't tell you if a certain wheel will actually fit your application, so I like to work through Tire Rack's site instead.
The real problem is that I want to sort by weight, lug pattern, diameter, width, offset, and then method of manufacture and finally things like style or manufacturer. I could care less what car it fits because that isn't my car. Show me a category for an MGB with a GM 5 lug pattern, 3" of flare and a JAG IRS though and I might reconsider. See the problem?
JB
Heh, show me a category for MGB that actually brings up any wheels. That's why back in 1990, I spent nearly six months searching for my current wheels. "MG? No we don't show any wheels for MG?"
I did the plumb-bobs and measured wheelwells. Finally convinced the local Goodyear store to have at there American Racing catalog and devoured the specs of all the wheels that I liked & thought might be close. I measured some more, then got the store to order one wheel that I thought might just work. When it arrived, I talked them into mounting a tire on this new wheel that I hadn't even paid a deposit on. Well, it fit and Goodyear made a sale on the full set of wheels & tires. I just wish I had known back then, with a bit of masaging those 15X7 American Racing BBS RS look-alikes were do-able.
The point is, in this high-tech internet computer age, we should not have to go thru all that. That would be an awesome database, Jim!
I'm assuming you know another car that already has wheel dimensions similar to what you crave. The MG part is irrelevant, but the GM part is. I know exactly how to search for wheels that will fit my car because I know what other cars use that sort of wheel. You can zero in fairly quickly if you know something that's probably right, such as a Camaro or a Lumina. Pop that into the Tire Rack site and check to see if the car has the correct offset for your application. If so, bonus.
The folks at Tire Rack have the full database for the wheels they sell, it's just not publicly accessible. It costs a lot of money to create and (more importantly!) maintain, which is why you don't see it online for free. So you might have to actually pick up the phone! Not all the sales reps are computer ninjas. We're a Tire Rack dealer, and I know my guy with the corporate service could look it up. If you want, send me the description of your ideal wheel dimensions (width, diameter, offset, bolt pattern) and I'll see if he can match it to a particular vehicle.
So far the best I've come up with is AR Torque thrust 2.1 to fit a '94 Camaro. 17" x 9-1/2" x 46mm offset. They weigh 20 lbs. That may be light for a 17" wheel but to me it is heavy, as they are replacing 11 lb Centerlines. The offset is barely within my guidelines (40 to 46 and a 38 might work). A Tire Rack guy ran a search for me and came up with that. It seems to me something lighter should be available.
JB
If you're going to run something that massive, it's going to be heavier than 11 lbs!
The most popular wheel in SCCA racing that balances cost and weight just might be the Enkei RPF1. Not sure what the weights for the size you want would be, but for a 15X7, the weight is only 9.9 pounds. I have 16X8 on my TR8 and they weigh in at around 14 pounds. With a 225/45/16 tire, they are around 34 pounds.
DSC01612.jpg
That reminds me - the 949Racing 6ULR is one of the lightest wheels out there that I'd trust. Their 17x9 is 17-18 lbs depending on offset. The 17x10 is 18-19 lbs. The bolt circle is 5x114.3 for the 17x9, and apparently a 5x120.65 is coming "late 2010" in black. Offsets aren't quite what you're looking for, but spacers can cope with that.
http://949racing.com/17x10-6ULR-Charcoal.aspx
The RPF1 in a 17x9 is 15.5 lbs. Don't know if the desired bolt pattern or offset is available, might be worth another call to Tire Rack.
That's 16.5 lbs for the Enkai wheel in a 17 x 9.5 x 38mm. But they do not have the chevy pattern. Still that's much closer to what I'm looking for. I just have a hard time understanding why a 3 inch difference in diameter should nearly double the weight. The increase in the rim circumference is only a factor of 1.2
Of course there is a width increase as well, from 8 to 9.5", a factor of 1.875 which puts us at 15.7 lbs when starting at 11 lbs for the smaller wheel, plus a bit more material for the web and that puts the Enkai right where I would expect it to be. But I still have to find something in a chevy or Jaguar pattern.
JB
The spokes have to be stronger on a larger wheel. They'll have to be thicker as well as longer. Also, you're going to be generating higher cornering loads with those big tires and they're probably built for heavier cars.
Going back from your numbers, you're starting with a 14x8 at 11lbs? That's a pretty light wheel for that size as well.
Might be worth venturing into a forum that specializes in cars with this sort of bolt pattern. Lots of Mustangs on the track, and they'll know about less mainstream manufacturers such as 949Racing.
Then it'd probably have to be a Camaro forum. Carl, what would be the best bet?
Centerline classics are probably still one of the lightest wheels out there. It all starts with the manufacturing process. You will always get more strength from a stressed material and they start out as a rolled sheet.
JB
RE: Then it'd probably have to be a Camaro forum.
Maybe, but I wouldn't rule out a Ford pattern. Most of the wheels in 17" are going to have way more positive offset than you want. And, you might be able find a wheel that is lighter even with a bolt pattern changing spacer. I don't see a problem with the spacers that bolt to the hub & have a seperate set of wheel lugs for the wheels (making them safer & allowing for the change in lug pattern).
No, Jim, the real problem is that you were spoiled by lightweight drag racing wheels many years ago. :-)
Street duty 17" wheels are going to be heavier than what you are looking to find. Getting considerably lighter will mean racing wheels with less strength for street or high dollar specialty wheels. Been on this trail for quite a while. I may may resort to running reasonably priced lightweight race wheels on the street, knowing that I may bend one occasionally.
As for Camaro forums, I haven't been to any in a long time. If you want to search what they are finding, here's some I used to visit:
www.camaros.net
thirdgen.org
fbodyonline.com
ls1tech.com
Wheels to invesigate:
http://www.billetspecialties.com/item.asp?cid=16&scid=251&pid=1009
www.forgeline.com
Gotta go.....
Here ya go , Jim.
This won't get you exactly what you want, but it will get you the names of some performance wheels to peruse their websites:
http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Performance-Parts/Miata/Wheels-Tires/Wheels.html?id=hd6YYDDd
Wheels galore:
http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/wheels-tires-wheels-c-6424_4542.html
I think I'm about ready to switch to a Miata bolt pattern.
Right. Well, 5 on 4.75 (120mm) isn't so common as it used to be right? Who would have thought. It looks like a 9.5 x 17 x 43mm offset wheel that weighs 15 lbs should be available, and in a nice looking wheel in the $250 range. Why am I not finding it?
JB
Did ya see these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4-Vette-17-x-9-5-2-Piece-Modular-Alum-Racing-Wheels-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem563f586db7QQitemZ370429947319QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
Not bad, wonder what they weigh?
I wasn't planning to go as wide on the front but it'd probably work. Have to check the offset.
JB
How about a 17X8.5?
http://www.rotawheels.com/wheels.asp?wheelid=40
They look nice, probably are light too. No 120mm BC though, so I can't use them.
JB
Oops, I didn't notice that the 5X120 is only for 17X8.
Missed that one, which might work for the front. But not for the rear.
JB
Bingo. Not sure on the weight & they are $350 for the 17X9.5
http://www.hotrodsusa.com/store/vintagewheel_v45.html
Summit and Jegs have almost identical looking wheels for much less. Their own brands, not sure of offset. I like the old school style but, we are dating ourselves.(LOL).
Here are the Summit wheels on a MGB,15" though. Look good to me. http://www.britishv8.org/MG/EarlDickeson-MGB.htm
They *are* nice looking wheels and undoubtedly lighter than many. But in a 17 very likely over 20 lbs as they are a cast wheel.
JB
FWIW - I have always liked my Datsun turbo Z wheels, I think they are nicknamed "swastika." It took me a while to find a decent set, then I have picked up some spares over the years. According to my electronic scale, they weigh 13.4 lbs. Probably not what you are looking for, however.
Brad
Brad, Jim B. is looking for the rare 17" wheel made of unobtanium and light as Helium(LOL) Seriously, I remember a 17" wheel that weighed 15lbs somewhere, but if I remember it looked kind of spindly. Found it, Gram lite. Ask for price? oops. Only in Ford pattern. Looks like your best bet might be newer Vette wheels.
big.jpg
Jim,
Enkei does have a 17X8.5" in 5X120mm 40mm offset PFo1 style wheel. 18.35 lbs
http://enkei.com/pf01.html
Dont think you will get the weight down unless you go for forged wheels and $$$$$$
"Enkei does have a 17X8.5" in 5X120mm 40mm offset PFo1 style wheel. 18.35 lbs "
Mike,
Where did you find the weight of those?
Another option, Jim.
Find something close, then have these guys widen them:
http://weldcraftwheels.com/
Some good ideas. I'm waiting on some info about brake hats to finalize the offset I need at the front, and then I'm planning on calling Greg Smith at Weld Wheels and see what they ever did with their G-Force wheels. I don't know what the price would be but if they followed through with them those should do the trick. Hopefully I'll know something within about the next week.
JB
Carl,
Page 7 of cat.
http://enkei.com/Enkei_Racing_Tuning_Series_2010.pdf
Thanks, Mike.
Dang it, nothing in my size and BC. Nice wheels though.
JB
Here's one that might work for Carl. Drag DR16 15X7 40mm offset. MGB bolt pattern. $82.50 each and only 14.5lbs. Also available in bronze(looks between gold and gunmetal).
41EEEgHMTEL__SL500_AA300_.jpg
Or these Drag DR44 40mm offset dual bolt pattern for $100 at Discount tire. Bottom pic is 0 offset 15X7 for flared fenders.
drad44_gml_ang.jpg
DR-20_GOLD_MF_LOWET__83529_zoom.jpg
Jim, Some of these wheels come in 17X7.5, 5X120mm,42mm offset. Discount Tire has them. http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/wheels/drag/home.do;jsessionid=9v3QNxQGXSyGY6nSn6FYkLxnXxQ8Rp1gQ1HcMXHKvwsvh6L0pXm74GJs4qMrnv9XhvYhshp3Z2gmMlQ0BvZ0YpNtjSppKp1f2H4PLRn3GhC7nRt5TnR8b15nRhqwBKZp!-1390101997!371104401?r=FLOINT%7Cpc%7C32803
This one is $115.
[attachment 7614 drad45_hb_ang.jpg
You could have these guys wide the rear ones. http://www.stocktonwheel.com/wheel_widening.htm
Stockton wheel could widen two for the rear. http://www.stocktonwheel.com/wheel_widening.htm
Actually Stockton just does steel, they send aluminum to these guys in Fresno. http://www.eagledynamics.net/
Hey Jim,
Just throwing it out there.
Range Rover uses your 5 on 120 bolt pattern and offset (so does BMW.)
All are forged wheels and range from 16 to 20 inches, 7.5 to 10 inch wide.
Even though they are truck rims they are pretty light.
The newer ones even look good and Craigs list is full of them.
Lots of aftermarket support as well.
Just bought a set of Niche Game 20's for the youngest daughters rangie.
Cost was good @ $178.00 canuck bucks.
Didn't put them on a scale but they are feather light.
Cheers
Fred
Those are some good suggestions guys. Maybe this afternoon I'll have time to do some searching and see what I can come up with.
JB
On some of the tuner forums, it has been mentioned several times that some manufacturers are claiming weights below real world experiences. Maybe it's the scales, maybe a bit of false advertising.
40mm offset is a bit much for me. According to this website, I would wind up with a narrower stance than what I have now:
http://kgm.tiwing.com/calcs/offsetcalc.htm
Carl, With 6mm (1/4") spacer and longer studs would be same as 34mm offset. Not bad looking wheels for the price. I know you like the gold center look.
I like these Enkei racing wheels. 17"x7" 4-100mm . I have adapters that will work with these.
I will probably get these for my TR6.
Could run a 245-45-17 tire on them or a 235. They are pricey but they are light for a 17" wheel.
They weight only 14.6 lbs
enkei_rpf1_s_ci3_l.jpg
Those look like what Bill Guzman has on his Orange roadster.. Except I think he has 15".
Those do look good. Too bad they don't make them in a 5-120mm 17" size. My problem is compounded by needing approximately a 42mm (40-46) rear offset and a 13mm or less front offset.
I just checked Discount Tires, and much to my surprise (shouldn't have been though) I learned that a 4-3/4" BC is actually 120.65mm which is a little over .025" and definitely enough to affect the fit. RATS! Wonder whether the Jag pattern is 120mm or 4-3/4" (120.65mm)? They could be bolted up, but it would cause the studs to splay slightly.
JB
Calvin,
Be carefull with those RPF1 in that size. The 7" will not have the same profile as the ones pictured! That one is likely the 17x9" which looks great with the spokes sunken in.
Jim, You could always change the Jag rear to Ford 5X4.5(same as lots of Nissan,Toyota,Mazda,Mitsubishi,etc.).Daze Jag IRS part 3 about halfway down shows how. http://dazed.home.bresnan.net/JaguarIRS3.html
As I'm not in a position to, nor have the talent, to flare my fenders, what is the widest tire and wheel offset combination I can use?
Carl is going to try 15X7, 34-40 +offset wheels. probably 225 or 235 50 tires. I think he will lose the bump stop hump in rear wheel well and hasn't measured the front yet. Probably have to pound in the factory dent in front wheel well also. He has rolled the fender lips in allready and uses a panhard rod. My guess he will have to roll a baseball bat around the tires to prevent rubbing. Carl, tell me if I missed anything.
Here you go Jim,
Kosei racing rims
•17x8.5, offset ET40, weight is 16.8lbs
•Bolt pattern: 5x120
.
http://www.elephantmotorsports.com/kosei-k1-racing-p-446.html
CA5VFYW4.jpg
Paul, Lots of guys have fitted 195-60-15 on 15X6 MGB offset(26mm+ I think). Still have to have rear axle centered. Flared fender guys usually use 225-50-15 on 15X7 0 offset or 15X8 MGB offset to fill the fenders. Some use 16 or 17 wheels also, then you would have to go 40 or 45 series tires for the right overall diameter(usually 23-25 inches). With all of these combos, I would roll the fender lips and use a panhard rod.
Here is another thought. Maybe you can just have rims made to your spec?
http://www.kodiakracingwheels.com/prices.html Prices
http://www.kodiakracingwheels.com/kodiak%20spec%20sheet.pdf spec sheet
I know of two MGBs running 225/50-15s without flares. Tight fit. Nine inches of rubber is very close to max for the stock wheel well.
My plan is 235/45 or 225/50 (same overall width).
Jim,
I found SpinWerks Racing Wheels to be very acceptable on my former SCCA F Production MGB GT.
And I am now using the 15 X 7 - 11 lb. - SpinWerks on my SCCA GT2 RV 8. They hold up to the grip of Goodyear Racing slicks, but require huge fender flares at all 4 corners.
keep them on the track
phillip g
Their 17 x 10 is 18.3lbs. and about $600. Not exactly a lightweight, but thanks.
JB
Finally found some weights for the Drag DR-44, 16.7 lbs. Ouch.
http://www.semotors.com/product_images/drag/drag-wheels-rim-information.pdf
May have to stick with my 13 lb. 14s awhile longer.
Carl, How about the DR9 in the chart. 15X6.5, 38mm offset and 13.2lbs. Available gold with machined rim.
Have you looked into companies like Billet specialties? Than can make just about any offset and bolt pattern. Lots of 17" choices as well. I am just not sure of the weights. Price will depend on the wheel you choose.