It is an American V8, of which ,"big brother", hoged a Healy. Perhaps we can discuss the finer points of the small block? Thanks, roverman.
Nice consideration Art.
Awesome engine for anyone that's ever owned a "Mopar" small block from the muscle car era. I've owned a 1969 Dodge Dart GT "340"; it was very competitive against the same cubic displacement from Ford and GM. It also shouted a particular/pleasing sound that would announce its presence from Mopar family. The actual horse power (like most muscle car of that era) was way under advertised (insurance purpose). A very torque orientated engine.
A weak area of the engine could be found around the mains on the block, this area had to be carefully magna-fluxed for cracks before proceeding with an overhaul.
How about an MG conversion with a 340 "SIX-PACK" with aluminum heads. I don't know the engine dimensions or weight but I imagine that it would be close to the early small block Chevy but heavier than the small block Ford.
I had a 318 in a '71 Valiant... my first car... and of course I absolutely loved it! It pulled well, and it proved very durable. I think almost all 318's came with 2-barrel carbs, which was just fine.
Depending on the British sports car, the distributor location (at the back, similar to SBC) might be problematic.
What 5-speed transmission would you pair up with a 273/318/340? Dodge put some 318's in early Dodge Dakota pickups... how many of those (if any) got 5-speed transmissions? Which make/model transmission did they use?
Back when I was researching an engine to replace my" frozen TR-250 engine", was looking at the Dodge 5.7 Hemi engine. I have one in my 2004 Durango.
I did change all "16 spark plugs" once, which took me awhile. I wanted to do a few things to help out with the gas mileage. The Durango weights in the 6 thousand pound range, so to me seemed a little gutless in stock form, until the gas pedal is on the floor. 1 changed the exhaust system for more flow. 2 installed a large air intake. 3 installed a throttle body spacer. 4 installed a stage 2 chip..... This resulted with wonderful throttle response, (No more gas pedal to floor anymore) when mashing gas pedal to the floor resulted in a huge launch. On a freeway trip, 22 mpg @ 75mph. I believe with a 5 speed auto.
So was looking into using this engine in my TR6. Dodge didn't have a stick transmission that I could find that would work for my application. Didn't want an auto transmission, ended up with Ls1/t56.
I know the 5.7 Hemi engine would be very fun in a Tr6, as for fitment didn't get that far, weight, and measurements. I don't think the messurements are that far off from the Ls1. Not knowing, weight would be faily close.
345hp/375tq without the MDS model
Bore x Stroke 3.92 x 3.58 in, 99.5 x 90.9 mm
Valve System pushrod, 16-valve, hydraulic roller lifters
Block Construction cast iron, deep skirt, cross-bolted main caps ------- maybe a little heavy here!
Centerline of crank to head deck face 9.3 inches
Centerline of crank to centerline of cam 7.4 inches
Centerline of crank to oil pan rail 2.6 inches
Overall block maximum deck width at deck face 18.3 inches
Overall block height from
oil pan rail to top of water outlet 15.4 inches
Overall engine length 21.1 inches
Compression Ratio 9.6:1
Combustion chamber volume 84.9cc
Intake valve angle 18 degrees
Intake valve head diameter 50.8mm, 2.00 inches
Exhaust valve angle 16y.5 degrees
Exhaust valve head diameter 39.4mm, 1.55 inches
Oil Capacity 7 qt., 6.6L
Weight (includes induction, wiring harness,
auto-trans flexplate and exhaust manifolds,
but not accessories) 485 lbs
Ignition Two spark plugs per cylinder
Just some more info, throttle body was 6" above the intake, around 33" to pan, apox from manifold 27" to pan, being fairly tall. Wonder if they have lower profile intake setups?
Wow! "sorry" for the dirty engine photos.
DSCN0653.JPG
Rear sump oil pan! This Durango is a four wheel drive.
DSCN0654.JPG
26" wide!
DSCN0655.JPG
Clan thanks for response. My "concept car", is a hot, 318"+ in a Jensen Healy. Supra 5 spd. should be ok. Which irs.? Maybe Mazda. Tuners say good to 500 hp.? Distributor in rear ,is a plus for this swap, clears the sloping hood. Stroker kits are"chevy cheap", from Flatlander.Edlebrock heads/intake, 400 lbs? The 420"/340, goes in my 67 cuda coupe. You can "peep" the sbf./Healy, for sale in JHPS, market place, for why not a Ford swap,(2 holes in the hood).This is about what Chrysler/Jensen, "could" have built. roverman.
Some would consider,$3,100 for a bare 340 block, a bit much. I would tend to agree. 318's and 360's= dime a doz.How cheap ? Scat 4" stroker kit, rated to 700 hp at up to 7,200 rpm. cost $1325,( crank,rods,forged pistons,moly rings, internally balanced, including bearings ).I think we're talkin 420+ inches at less than 1 lb/in. ?Ported "Edlebrocks", are flowin just over 300 cfm.Did I say, Monster Torque? Got "tubs" out back ? roverman.
I have a racing friend who runs a 408 (4" stroke) mopar smallblock in a Dart with a Liberty built new process 4 speed.. The car does wheels up launches and runs mid 10's...
Imagine the possibilities. ;-)
Thanks Tony, let's see the "other" 340 do that ! I'm thinkin, your friend got, "tubs", out-back. Make no mistake, I really dig the Rover V8, but "this", is Mopar-personal. This could be like "Mopar/Jensens", answer to the Sumbeam Tiger, only better.
Art.. the car is stock bodied and is not tubbed.. a 10" slick thats it.
oh yeah.. its a 73 Duster.. not a Dart.
I'm thinkin, pushin a"leetul" more air thanna Healy? Bout' 3,200 lbs ?
Yep, Supra Turbo 5-speed with a Dodge Dakota 3.9L V6 bellhousing:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/2E151/My%201987%20RX7%20Sport/201-0152_IMG.jpg)
http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35945&highlight=r154
New generaton Hemi uses the same bolt pattern.
Greg
Greg, thanks for the hot tip. "Lakewood" starts at about $280, 1/4" steel and not even a scattershield. I'm thinkin "Dakota" is alum. ? I like alum. I'm also thinkin,5 spd. is up to the task, 2300 lbs and 400 hp ? Ok, so it looks like we got motor,bh. and 5 spd combo, which irs.? Is RX7 really strong enough ? Nissan or Infinity a better/stronger choice ?"May" push the front wheels forward to 92" wb. Looking for near 50/50 frt/rear and excellent handling. Jensen Healy Hellfire ?
Looks like best bang per buck is 360, "Magnum" block for oem. roller cams and nickle content in block. Thicker cyl. walls than 340". Much easier to get. 406+ inches. Healy Monster II ? roverman.
Greg, Did I read correctly? The what year?, Dakota V6 bh. will bolt-up to Supra 5 spd., 9 bolt/2 dowel box ? I'm finding "zip" at this point. I'm ready to buy. Thanks, roverman.
Hi Art.
I'm showing 94-99 Dakota 3.9L V6 bellhousing. That will bolt right up to the 87-92 Supra Turbo R154 5-speed. Be advised, this combo takes an 11" flywheel. If you have a 273-318-340, you can use the stock 3.9L V6 flywheel. The 360 requires the truck flywheel.
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3168502&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1
Also, the R154 is quite wide. Some tunnel work may be required.
Greg
3.9_bellhousing11.JPG
Greg and clan. Looks identicle to "pattern" on my W58 Supra box. Turbo? How to tell ? Stamped numbers somwhere ? Over in that Mopar forum, their suggesting truck and little 4 cyl diesel tran's. I'm suspicious of the ratios .Thanks, roverman
Art, W58 is smaller pattern. You need R154. There was a long thread a while back on the differences. Greg knows his stuff on what fits what! Go with the years on Dakota bell and Supra (Turbo) tranny Greg gave.The ratios on the R154 are just right.The Mopar forum is talking about other bellhousings with that pattern, not tranny's.You need the Dakota (AX15) front bearing retainer sleeve and Dakota slave also.Sounds like a longer pilot bushing,too.
Clan, I've read of the W58 being quite durable behind V8's. 400 hp. in a 2300 lb. car ? I see 9 bolts and 2 dowels in"Dakota" bh. ,bigger circumferance than the W58 ? No luck so far with "jdm's" for R154 box. Why not just "spring" for the Lexus 6 speed ? Suggestions ? Thanks, roverman.
Art, Comparison of small(W58) and big (R154)Toyota pattern.
bellhousingfront.jpg
Art, Another tranny option would be Colorado/Canyon 2WD MA5( same as Solstice and Skye roadsters except for shifter location, used behind 400 HP Mallet LS V8 conversions)Toyota large bell pattern but familiar SBC input splines and output like the old Muncie 4 speed. Lower first gear about 3.75 VS. 3.25 for R154. Picture shows one adapted to GM bell. Quite a few on car-part.com, nationwide as low as $250.
Ar5_91.JPG
Art, For IRS, I have a R230 Nissan 350Z diff. It is 3.69 ratio with Viscous LSD. 9" ring gear. It is a little too big for what I want and I would trade straight across for an 90-96 Infinity Q45 R200 8" 3.54 ratio ( same large 6 bolt axle flanges).
ec3e_2.jpg
Jim, thanks, but I'm looking for a "modular clip", like Series, II RX 7, only stronger.This to reduce fab. requirements. BH and R 154 trans are on the way. Trans looks "beefy".New supplier, we'll "see" how good. First build on eng. to be steel crank, Magnum 5.2L, re-ground roller cam and Edlebrock heads and dual plane. 400 lbs. ish ? Safely twist to 7K. Max power probably less. I like, "Jensen Healey Hell-fire". Anybody ? roverman
Art, Check out Granny's Speed Shop web site.Second generation RX7 Turbo II has an 8" ring gear,4.10 ratio with 4 pinion clutch type posi, and is used in a lot of V8 swaps.It would be a very fun car!
Thanks Jim. I shall check Hot tip just in, reportedly 93'-95',(all turboed/series III RX 7), have"all gear" LSD,(no clutches) and 8" ring gear. I'll probably not need this. roverman.
Clan, Got R154 and sbm. BH. today. I will either need to put it in a "rat rod" or shorten/find a shifter less than 2 ft. tall ? Shifter "only" was from their pile of same. Suggestions ? Thanks, roverman.
Should be easy to shorten shifter. My Ford tranny looked like a truck shifter until I took the angle grinder to it. Then rethread to shift knob of your choice. Shortened the throws real nice too.
Picture003.jpg
Jim, 'cept thisin got rubber n-it and sheet meatal r-ound it. I do "stinky" welds with-out rubber. Probably a non-issue till I do a first in-car mock-up. I suspect I'll learn to say..."this car rips". roverman.
I've seen that kind before. I think the V6 guys take the S-10 one apart,shorten and put back together. If not on this board maybe the MG Experience board. I think, Bill Young maybe. I'll do a search.
Art, Supra short shifter off Ebay $160. I couldn't find the thread, but some Mazda guys use a torch to melt the rubber out,shorten and fill with hot melt glue so outer shroud doesn't turn.
69_2.jpg
Jim and clan, think I might be missing something in "Grannys". I could'nt find a link about rear ends. I don't think mine has the 8" ring gear, probably non-turbo. I'm tempted to try it. Retro a stronger pumkin later ? I have a 10.5" Centerforce clutch assem.,with "marcel" in the disk, should be adequate. Lead on a alum. flywheel, or lightweight steel ? Considering using "scales", for if/how much, to move front wb. I want close to 50/50. HR. mag had a 2 pgr. on hi-dollar 427, side oiler, Tiger-could have been, clone,(had Shelby, the time, in the day). Track car only, and they "rave" about the handling, maybe compared to a regular Tiger ? I'm looking for less"fear-factor", and more overall performance, corners, stopping and road use. Time will tell, roverman.
Roverman, The info on RX7 rears is near the bottom of the page on this link in general info:http://grannys.tripod.com/mainpage.html
Jim, WOW...wow ! Sooo, the 7" ring gear woun't "quite hold", 998hp/1180 ft. lbs. and "only" 9.03 in 1/4 ? I must try it. Healey should weigh-waay-less.Thanks, roverman.
Art, I agree on the dual pattern cams being unecessary for the good aftermarket heads but, sure help out with the stock heads(Ford and Buick and Caddy) puny exhaust ports. Woops. Should have posted on serious cams thread. Where's Nic anyway, I don't want to be the only cross poster.
Where indeed, is Nic ? Last I heard, the Weiderholderer?, family was headed to sunny CA. We haven't been having too many alien abductions, out heer, lately, sooo ? Paul, what about these,"lumpy bumpies", I'm tryin to un-load ? Oops, now I'm a cross-poster, better than a dresser, roverman.
Ok, 26" tire,4:10s out back and a Supra R154 box, .753 od . I think I need more cam, for max power around 7k. ? Current mech. roller is single pattern, 226 deg. @ .050", 110 lc. and .446" vl. with 1.6/1 sbc. roller rockers.Thought is max hp. in 1/1 4th. and near max torque in 5 th. for, O' blessed mother of accelleration ? Anyone ? roverman.
Too thin ? I think so. Standard bore,Magnum down to .105" wall.sonic tested), on non thrust, with planned .03"over bore, I think not ! Reportedly,"all" these blocks are, "nickle fortified". May have to go with,71'-74', pre Magnum,(reportedly thicker walls),w.o. oem. roller cam benefit. 340 block, a pricier option. Race block, way too expensive, roverman.
Art, There are more and more newer Hemi's popping up in junkyards. Would bolt right up! Do a nation wide search on car-part.com. I checked for you. A whole page between $1000-$1450. I wonder if they are thin too.
Jim and clan, your input is well received, but for this project, I want "period correct" apppearance.This car is about, what Chysler/Jensen, "could" have built. I'm already getting flack, for messing-up a rare classic,( obviously not in this forum). If/when I were to install a "HemI" in one of my misfits, it would need to be on top of a Rover block.The 318,(Jensen Healey Hellfire), baseline motor, will have easy 400 hp. and adquate adrenaline attached, to get started on the sorting-out process. Thanks, roverman.
Calvin and clan. Impressive engine and used prices are falling comparable to LS motors.Basic dim's. comparable to a 318 with 360 crank and "smart", hemi heads.533lbs seems a "little" heavy for alum. heads and plastic int. One problem for swapping this motor into cars that must be smogged, some states,76' up, CA. for one,you must meet visual inspection and road dyno emissions. 75' and prior engines/cars, most states, no problem. I'm considering, best of both worlds, a smart hemi, aftermarket head design in a bolt on conversion of the LA/Magnum sbm's. roverman.
Clan, Just ran Comp Cams, "camquest 6", program to pick a std. available cam. Build: 5.2L Magnum, Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, single plane with 750 cfm. Thermoquad, 10/1 on gas,small tube headers w. mufflers,2,500 lbs., street/strip use. It said use grind XR274R(mech. roller). It predicts 524 hp.@6,500 and 468 ft/lbs@ 5,000. If this is even,"close", I'll need a change of under-alls ? Dan Jones/anybody ? roverman.
With the benefits of the HIP. process, I shall attempt to "shrink" a hemi head onto the LA and Magnum sbm. Don't order the lobotamy-jus-yet. roverman.
Art, are you saying that you plan to take a hemi head, heat it to 975*F and pressurize it with 15,000psi of argon in the hopes of shrinking it down to the sbm bore centers? (where do you find 15,000psi argon?)
Now THAT is some radical thinking.
JB
Hey Jim, I think Art already tried shrinking the head with unexpected results.
Just kidding Art. If something like that would work, oh mamma couldn't we have some fun!
Rather than mess around Art, I have a 511ci 780hp bbm in my Jensen Interceptor. If we dropped it from around 8 feet into the healey it just might fit.
Cheers
Fred
Jim, Let's not blow this out of proportion...It's only 970F. Company is called "Kittyhawk,"(Wright Bros')? Garden Grove,Ca.Using retired gun barrels from battle ships(pretty strong).Fred, no Hemi in a Healey, it's for the noisy Cuda'. My Healey wants' to carve some "corners" against your LandYaught , on the inside, a good idea. lol., roverman.
Jim, thanks for the suggestion. Spotted a bare set of "Arias", asking $ 485. "IF", this works, I think we know what,series of motors, would be next project ? roverman.
Jim and clan, plan is to "squeeze" a junk, sbc alum. head, to make it-you guessed - a "shrunken head". lol. for more hp. roverman.
So I'm guessing they pressurize the chunk of gun barrel (breach with welded plug in short barrel section) with about 2500 psi argon, chuck it in the oven and let the heat generate the rest of the pressure from expansion of the gas?
Are you doing anything to seal the pores of the aluminum? Copper plating maybe? Make a "copperhead" engine!
JB
No copper-too heavy, lol. Maybe more correct term is the inert gas,(sucks-out) the porosity? Don't know/care, just take out the air(pores). A billet head with coollant passages. How "cool" is that " roverman.
Okay, this is too damn funny.
Whatever happened with this 'shrunken head' idea, Art?
I'd love to see the results, all you really need is a gun breech big enough to take the bare head, an oven big enough to hold the breech which can get up to 1000° F, and a fresh bottle of argon. Seems easy enough. The cast aluminum isn't fully dense so there are internal voids evenly distributed. That temperature should have the aluminum in a near-plastic state. By the time you shrank it it would be roughly equivalent to billet material in terms of density and strength.
The reason I suggested the copper plating was to seal the voids that were close to the surface to make the shrinking more uniform. Just a few thousandths would do that, and it could be electro-chemically stripped off afterwards. Any competent plating shop could handle that. (Though wouldn't it look cool to have copper plated heads?)
Jim
Like soo many of my "lightbulbs", I don't seem to posses enough Hz, to light all of them. From 7/2010 till now, once you observe the marvelous Gen III hemi heads/engine,(think of it as a sbm on steroids), no need to search further for a better sbm head. IF I could "only" shrink it to fit the RV8... Onward, roverman.
IF I could "only" shrink it to fit the RV8
I don't even care if the head bolts and water passages are close to lining up. The aluminum head shrinking thing ( are you part South American aboriginal? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrunken_head ) is what I'm curious about.
Now you've got me wondering how you would control the shrink. Is it primarily time under pressure or absolute pressure that would control the compression amount? How much psi would you have to hit it with?
I wonder if they ever took any aluminum objects into the Marianas Trench? That would be a proof of concept.
Seems like I remember the preliminary research work was by Dr. Timothy Leary back in late 50"s or early 60's. Some kind of CHEMICAL caused reality to become one's worst nightmare occasionally, but enabled mind expanding fantasies. :-)
"Marianas Trench", has much pressure-indeed, but how do you maintain 975 F ? I suspect shrinkage will stop when all of the porosity is gone, as in density of billet. Sometimes, less IS more... roverman.
but how do you maintain 975 F ?
That's easy.
Encase the head in a uranium / inert matrix. As pressure increases with depth and forces the U-238 molecules closer together you gain heat.
Where's a "hammer to the head" smiley when I need one.
gno,gno gno, in the alternate universe, densities, or the lack thereof, become reversed. Of course you'll need a self reversing/propelling worm hole ! Got one ?
This is what comes of asking me to solve problems for you.
I've never yet found a hammer that was too large for the job.