Are they ready for Prime Time?
The one used for the last 3 years in the Lexus IS-F seems to be. 8 speed, converter lock up in the top 7 gears, dual pattern dual mode shifting, accepts paddle inputs, 100 or 300 millisecond shift time (depending on manual or auto mode), throttle blip on downshift, and a stand-alone controller that takes inputs from the drivetrain controller. This one has a narrow pan, 4 clutch sets, 2 disc brakes (upgrade from brake bands) but uses a unitary case and bellhousing.
The one used in the IS/GS 350 is similar but a 6 speed and has a removable bellhousing.
Anyone know what the latest and greatest from other manufacturers are?
JB
Jim, I don't know how many ,"others", have their own, stand alone computer. I make a bell housing to fit the,"Toy-Borg", 4spd/od w. lock-up. Designd by BW. and built/used in Celicas/pu's, and needs no computer. I selected it for cost/availability and it fits well, in the "little" Buicks and Old's. If you find just the right trans, but it's integral bh., and if it has a round/concentric counterbore, that the front pump/stator support plugs into, this may allow you to cut-off the old bh. This makes it easier to add engine fitting bh. I believe the CVCT has advantages, such as built by "ZF" and optional in some bigger Fords like the "500", but didn't catch-on in the larger cars. roverman.
Im going rather old school with a 2004r. I like their gear ratios better than a 700r4, have a lockup converter.. And can run without a computer... With some modification they stand up in sub 10 second Turbo Buicks they should be fine in my Aluminum V-8 Vega.
I'd like to kinda push the envelope a bit here. The old automatics weren't called "slush box" for nothing, but some of the newer ones will shift very fast. Several companies (including TCI) sell stand-alone controllers so that is not a problem. (they even have a 6 speed based on the 700r4) I have a 2004r but don't think I can get the shift characteristics I want out of it. If I am going to have to adapt a bellhousing I may as well start with the best tranny I can put in the car. Looks like it might take a lot of research though.
JB
"Several companies (including TCI) sell stand-alone controllers so that is not a problem."
No, but the $1,000 price tag is.
"(they even have a 6 speed based on the 700r4)"
No, they have a six speed based on the 4L60E. And the "six speed" simply splits first and second by using the OD gearset to get the two additional ratios. The problem is that the OD clutch pack is not designed to live under low speed torque.
"I have a 2004r but don't think I can get the shift characteristics I want out of it."
What are you looking for? The Turbo Buick crowd runs 9 sec quarter miles with these transmissions.
Maybe I caught you on a bad day Joe? Look, I'm not asking for a miracle here, just something a little better than the same old white bread. TCI isn't the only controller option and their 6 speed was just an example, and not the one I'd pick. The 2004r is a fine transmission, especially if you want to drag race but I don't. I want to shift up and down while going in and out of corners. For that it's pretty lackluster. 4 gears and a lock up clutch is adequate, and *maybe* proper tuning by an expert can get it close but I've talked to several of these experts and they all ultimately begin talking about the 4L60E. Which is OK, but it doesn't fit my block and the pan is so wide I'd have to cut the floor. I'd probably have to cut the floor with the 2004r also.
It just happens that there is a whole crop of automatics out there that use a narrow pan, and those should all fit the car without body modifications. They also come in flavors of 5,6 and 8 speeds so the only real issues as far as I'm concerned are matching the block, price, availability, and the controller. Most of the ones I've looked at lately have a "performance" shift option of some sort also.
So taking these problems in order of importance, first matching the block. Some come with a detachable bellhousing which is great. I can put that on the mill and make changes. I can add metal for bolt bosses with the tig welder. I should be able to make that work. The ones with a unitized case will need an adapter plate of some kind and probably standoffs on the torque converter. Price, availability and controller, I hope to find a good one in a junkyard along with the wiring harness and the controller. For the shifter, again the junkyard may provide the solution.
At this point I am just trying to get an idea which ones might make the best choice. I suspect the 8 speed in the Lexus IS-F is going to be scarce and expensive, and it has a unitized case. But Lexus is in their 4th year of production and that tranny is also used in the entire 460 model line. The ZF 8 speed hasn't been out long enough to have much luck finding one, though it does look like a good choice. The Toyota/Lexus 6 speed A761E and A760E may be the right choice due to the separate bellhousing. But what else is there? I know GM has a 6 speed but I've heard it's had teething problems and that seems to be a habit with the American designs (early 700r4's for instance were not good) and the controller may be integrated into the primary PCM. Pan width may also be a problem. No clue what Ford or Chrysler may have, or for that matter any of the other auto makers.
So that's where I am. I'll probably visit the junkyard at the end of the week, and perhaps a local tranny shop also so I just want to be able to hold an intelligent conversation with them when I do.
JB
so essentially you are looking for characteristics of a clutchless manual transmission.
Jim, Also check Ebay on Lexus trans. Also car-part.com for regional wrecking yards. I'm sticking with the AW4/A340. It does everything I would want and has worked repeatedly at low 9 second quarters.Of course that is with Kevlar clutches and bands and other mods. Stock it is about the same as a stock 700R4/4L60.
I'll throw this out there; the Rover uses the ZF 4hp22 and its bellhousing bolts onto the BOPR block. I was going to get some parts off of a Volvo version to convert the transmission tailshaft for a driveshaft instead of a transfer case. It is computer controlled. But, frankly, I've been a little preoccupied lately and haven't gotten to that project.
I see that there is a ZF 6hp26 with a capacity of 443ft-lbs., used on BMW and,...
wait for it...
Hyundai Genesis. Yikes!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_6HP26_transmission
Paul, Rover pattern is 215, Jim B. is looking for newer, 64 and up BOP for his 340. But, if the ZF 6hp26 has a separate bellhousing he would be interested. Or like Art (Roverman) said in earlier post, use front pump pattern and cut exsisting bell off.Use that pattern to bolt modifed BOP bell to.
Jim B. ? Sounds like your building a Formula1 version of an MGB and manual would be more efficient. Perhaps better selections of ratios and reduced parasitic. roverman.
Art, on the MGB Experience board there is a thread"New small V6 automatic" Aisan-Warner Jeep AW4 91-96,Cherokee 2WD same as Toyota Supra A340.Separate bellhousing.Jeep 2.5 and Isuzu V6 bellhousing is same as GM 3800 V6,Caddy 4.9 V8,2.8,3.1,3.4 V6.With Advanced Adapters AMC Turbo400 adapter with 4.0 bell can fit Chevy,BOP V8.Toyota 3.0 V6 and Isuzu V6 have 2800 stall converters.Which hold up to twin turbo 600-800 HP, low 9's if built. 4 speed O/D. Solenoid manual shift either stick,pushbutton or paddle shift.
117_1767_small.jpg
supra.jpg
Right now I'm trying to find out how much the AA80E (8 speed) and the A761E (6 speed) sell for in the junk yards, when you can find them. Any assistance appreciated, I once had a link for a u-pull search...
Anyway, apparently the AA80E shifts 40% faster than the A761E, possibly an advantage worth pursuing, but much will depend on cost and availability. The separate bellhousing on the 761 is a significant advantage. Both are in the ballpark on torque and HP. I think a dual pattern stick is probably the way I'll go but won't rule out paddle shifters at this time.
An old drag racer suggested a Lenco with a torque converter, but somehow I don't think it'll be what I'm looking for.
JB
Jim, Here's a link to some US & Canada bone yards.
http://car-part.com/
Jim B, If you must have the 8 speed, don't rule out ,cutting-off the integral bh., or just make an alum. adapter, like Dand D or Kennedy does. Compnies like "Reid and JW Perf. Trans", as listed Jeg's, make separate bh's for autos, that were integral. Not a big. I know you can handle it. So I guess a paddle shift stick is out ? roverman.
Haven't completely ruled it out Art, and I am due for a new steering wheel sometime so who knows?
I've done tranny adapters before. Advance Adapters still stocks my Blackwood Labs IH-SV series engine (265, 304, 345, 392 cu.in.) to 700r4 adapter, although I gave up on promoting them about a decade ago. Wasn't a real brisk seller, those IH guys are double cheap. I'm not badmouthing them, they all know it. So if it comes down to it, I can make an adapter but it is not an easy task. Still, for the right deal on the tranny it might be worth it.
Graham, thanks for the link, drew a blank on the 8 speed. I'll probably have to send out a general parts request. I'd really like to take the "no compromises" approach but at what cost? If it means not driving for another summer I'm not sure it's worth it.
JB
OK, and your against a Ford 500-(by ZF)CVCT because....? Shifty but good. roverman.
Because I don't want to feel disconnected from the mechanical bits of the car. I like knowing at just exactly what point the tires will break loose. I like having the road speed positively linked to the engine speed. And I expect this engine to have a remarkably broad power band. Really, a proper 4 speed is about all I need but without the clutch. Heck for that matter it'd do just fine with a 3 speed. But as long as I'm going to the trouble I might as well get it right.
So let's see, if one tranny shifts in 100ms but does it 7 times while the other only does it 5 times but is 41% slower.... figger, figger, figger.... yep, the 8 speed nudges out the 6 speed by 5 milliseconds. Better get the 8 speed, fractions add up!
JB
Ok, some would consider "chain", fairly mechanical. If your driving 10/10's, the tire/tires will break loose more likely when they feel an "up-set", ie. conventional shift/lift/stab of the throttle. Good Luck, roverman.
Turns out the A761E six speed is probably the best choice, but the transmission control module (TCM) is not attached to the outside of the transmission case in any application I have found so far. (FWD it is fairly common). A low mileage tranny can be had in the $1000-$1500 range whereas the 8 speed runs close to 5 grand. Shift firmness is controlled by pulse modulation of the shifter solenoids and the valve body does not use accumulators. There is apparently no external line pressure control. The TCM in most RWD applications is incorporated into the ECM but a FWD TCM may work. The A761E is used behind the V8 engines whereas the A760E is used behind the V6. This probably means different gear ratios and possibly some strengthening of the 761, and likely different shift parameters as well. Finding a V8 FWD application seems to be the best option for a TCM, perhaps a Toyota. Then comes the question of access to the controller for programming the shift characteristics.
I am attempting to acquire a low mileage 761 at a good price and will know more once that is done, particularly regarding size, shifter requirements, connector types and such.
JB
Jim, Is the FWD tranny longitudinal or transverse? Are you going to use the RWD tranny with FWD control box?
That's the plan Jim. I expect transverse FWD is the norm but if it is the same tranny in a different case perhaps the FWD module will work. The transmission is supposed to be here Monday. I found a yard with a large supply of them and was able to make a deal for a low mileage unit delivered to my door for about $750 which I consider to be a very good price. The guy says they just don't break. He sells all the engines he can get to dealers but the trannys just pile up and he basically asked me to name my price. It will come with the pigtail for the electrics and once I look it over I'll contact him about possibly some other components, odds are good he can come up with a module for me, maybe a shifter, and I'm very curious about the coupler used immediately behind the transmission on these cars.
JB
You could weld up a hybrid coupler,like the Lexus splined part front/u-joint yoke ,my guess, a weird 3 bolt cv type setup instead of u-joint.Ratio-tek has a valve body kit for A761.
I saw that kit and it immediately made me wonder how hard it is to modify the shift parameters in the TCM. Ours is not a drag racing application so I'm not sure the shift kit is appropriate. I will likely try the stock set-up first, then look at modifications. There's a guy at the Lexus dealer I can ask about tuning when the time comes.
I will have a stationary driveshaft due to the Jag IRS so flex joint design is pretty wide open. Basically anything that will allow small lengthwise fluctuations will do fine.
JB
Am I hearing correctly ? Monster motor meets slushbox ? How much torque ? roverman.
Oh, not much. Maybe 500 max.
JB
My 6 speed transmission came in yesterday. Here it is with the bellhousing removed:
MVC-541F.JPG
Below it is sitting next to the case of my 2004r. Not much difference in the size, but notice the width of the lower part of the case. Obviously it will be a much better fit in the MGB transmission tunnel and should go in without any modifications at all. The bellhousing will have to be adapted to the BOP pattern of course (BOPR in the case of Dan B's TR-7 upgrade). The torque converter and wiring harness should be here within a few days. Converter spacing will determine the best way to handle the match-up.
MVC-542F.JPG
I will be developing this swap with an eye towards making a kit available.
JB
Cool,Jim. Hey, I told you, weird 3 bolt CV thingy! I wonder if the AW4/A340 bellhousing would bolt up?
I'd say there'd be a good chance of it. How would be the best way we could find out?
I'll probably have to order the driveshaft just for the coupler. But first I need to figure out which TCM I need.
JB
Jim B., would you post a picture of the transmission end of the bellhousing? Perhaps with a tape measure in the shot to use for measurement? When I get home, I'm going to look at the Rover bellhousing to see if the trans end looks similar.
Edit; never mind. I see the bell in the first picture. I'll improvise for measurements.
Jim,
I found this while surfing the net last night, I dont know what the price ranges are but it seems you have a way with vendors as with the Roadmaster!
Hope it helps!
John
http://www.high-impact.net/transmission_and_gear/overdrive_conversions.htm
Paul, the center hole (appears concentric with the shaft) is just a bit larger than the pump and measures 8-7/16" diameter. What size hole is in the British bellhousing and is there enough meat to go out to that size? (Wouldn't that be cool?)
John, I'll try to review that site this evening, what exactly were you pointing out?
JB
Here is a pic of the Isuzu bell(GM 60 degree V6, 3800 V6,Caddy 4.9 V8).
117_1767_small.jpg
Didnt mean to leave that out.
They have TCMs for many applications and might be able to set you up with what you are looking for.
Thanks for that info John. I sent them an e-mail. It's a good looking controller but not cheap at about $800. (more than I paid for the tranny, but the two together still aren't a bad deal) I also sent an inquiry to Glen at Glen's Garage to see what the MegaSquirt boys have been up to. (I know they've controlled the 4L60E) If he's current that'll be quicker and easier than searching their forum for news. If anyone hears anything, please pass it along.
JB
Not a problem!
That is a little steep, from what I saw having the capabilities to have a paddle shift setup and run in auto mode would have its benifits for autocross and street driving was very cool!
Does that unit (Trans) have internal pressure sensors and turbine speed sensors as does the Allison units?
Jim, Lots of bellhousings for Jeep AW4 4.0 six on car-part.com for $60-$120. If that will fit your six speed, the Advance adapter for AMC Turbo 400 to Chevy/Buick motor would be all you need to bolt up to your 340.
I bet there's a bolt-together kit in there somewhere. Torque converter came today and I've been able to do some measuring. The Lexus bellhousing would have to have the engine flange bored to the 340 flex plate size (about 13-1/2" by 1/2" deep), I think I can do that on my lathe. Then about a 5/8" plate needs to be added for the bolt flange to match the 340. I happen to have enough 1 inch thick Mic-6 cast aluminum plate to make that flange. I can turn the OD of the bellhousing flange to give a round mating surface and a square shoulder but that leaves the flange. Does anyone have access to the mechanical drawings of the bellhousing layout for the Buick 340 (BOP) and possibly the 215 (BOPR)? With that I could have the flanges waterjet cut and there it is, an exact part. Just TIG weld it together and face it off on the mill. Barring that, I can make the plate match the 2004r case, approximate the center hole position making it a little oversize, and use 4 setscrews for positioning similar to using a 4 jaw chuck and then weld. I'll give it some more thought.
JB
Jim, Advance Adapters for dim's, or D and D? Buick V6, racing book-by Buick, has BH. dwg.It's not easier to use, Buick, V6/rabbit ears,auto bh., cut-off a junk core, and add plate at back ? Seems like you might use Buick, pump counterbore, for AW. trans. concentricity, in locating, rear welded-on rear adapter plate. Using "transfer", screws/pins to mark new bolt pattern ? roverman.
Jim, 96 and up 4L60E (Chevy)has a removable bellhousing. Make sure it is 4.3 V6 or earlier V8 pattern. LS is deeper and has top center bolt hole to distinguish. The Chevy pattern shares the dowel locations and 4 bolts with B.O.P. You could use the Trans-Dapt thin Turbo 350/400 adapter($50).The starter pocket would have to be moved to the other side. Here are some pictures of the LS version, note the extra top bolt hole:
BlIF7sgBWkKGrHqUH-D0Es-YhG0HyBLZeZn7vQ_12.jpg
Jim, what is the hole diameter? Fitting the A761E to that bell might be pretty easy. To go from SBC to BOP is not hard. Edith's V6 Buick (TR7) is mated to the 700r4 with a simple 1/8" plate and even that may not be necessary as I'm quite sure that 4 bolts out on the bellhousing flange is enough. I suspect they just wanted to cover the hole at the top. I'll take a closer look first chance I get.
JB
I don't know the diameter, this is the only picture I could find of the older Chevy V8/4.3 V6 pattern. Those other pictures are of LS version which look close but is deeper and extra bolt hole on top. It looks like a dual bolt pattern ring between the bellhousing and tranny might work.
4L60e_front_bellhousing.jpg
Jim's and clan. 94-97' Camry and Lexus 300, anybody ? Need tcm ? Hop-up parts ? 4 spd. od. ? Nippon has em. My BH. "may" machine to fit. Thanks, roverman.
Art, my apologies, but sometimes I just don't understand you. Are you suggesting I use a 4 speed transmission instead of the A761E six speed I just bought? Or something else entirely? I'm just a little slow to catch on sometimes.
The news on a controller is mixed. So far I've not found a suitable TCM, although a possibility exists that the late model Toyota Avalon *MIGHT* use a separate TCM. I plan to check with the dealer but I'm not holding my breath. Meanwhile, the MegaSquirt has some potential. Using it's GPIO board (General Purpose In/Out) add on which connects using CAN bus architecture, the guys have been using it to run GM and Ford 4 speed automatics. It has additional capabilities so the main limiting factors seem to be adding the code to run the extra 2 gears and implementing pulse width modulation on the outputs to control shift firmness. neither seems to be insurmountable, provided I can get someone familiar with code to help out, and I already have the MS controller for the engine so I'm part way there anyway. This is handy since MS can also do things like retarding ignition timing when shifting and control the lock up clutch during a shift based on operating conditions. So in a perfect world things will be great! Wonder how close reality can get? I need to find a real good service manual on the A761E.
Nothing new yet on the bellhousing, I've been tied up with vehicle and tractor maintenance and haven't been able to look at it. But the warmer weather coming up should help.
JB
Jim, Has the GPIO system been used for transmission control before?
It has been a while since I looked at the MegaSquirt system. I didn't realize they were using CAN hardware, but I shouldn't be surprised because their philosophy has been to use non-proprietary standards.
Jim B. and clan. I'm sorry, I was considering an A541, for my own use, easy to get, here. Just trying to get more info on hop-up/etc. I haven't heard back from "trans tek"?, yet. Little B.O.P.'s came with 2and3 spd. autos, that were problematic. Didn't mean to jack your thread ? roverman.
That's OK Art, Jim Nichols is also using a similar tranny, I forget the exact number, A340 maybe? Anyway they're all in the same family so I really don't mind at all as long as I can keep from getting confused. Paul, I think they've been using the GPIO board for a year or two now and they have a pretty well developed kit for it (MegaShift).
http://www.msgpio.com/manuals/mshift/index.html
Of course they were using a second MS board to do it before that so the development work has been going on for quite awhile. I think practically all of the work has been with the 4L60E though so I'm a little out of the mainstream. The good news is that the 4L60E uses PWM on one of the shift solenoids and also on the line pressure solenoid so it should be almost a cut-n-paste code mod. Plus the output for the line pressure solenoid could perhaps be used for one of the extra gears in the 761. I don't know yet how many shift solenoids it has, it's even possible that could be enough. The level of control in MegaShift is quite sophisticated.
Jim
Jim, Actually Jeep Cherokee AW4(same as A340) with either Isuzu V6 or Jeep Comanchee 2.5 bell(60 degreeV6/3800/4.9 Caddy) bolt pattern. Maybe you should take a look at the 92-96 Jeep Cherokee controller, I know it is for 4 speed but you may be able to modify.I found a 97 S-10 4.3 V6 (Chevy pattern)4L60E bell like in the picture on car-part.com for $65. I found lots of tranny's and bells like mine, but haven't had time,too short handed where I work.
Some days are just better than others, I guess you have to grab on to the good ones and forget the rest. Today I learned my "6 speed" transmission is a 5 speed, and the junkyard guy is avoiding me. Just what I get for making a distant purchase I guess. So that created a detour and I'm back on the hunt for a 6 speed and will look more closely local. I can make someone a killer deal on a 5 speed though. I guess in the meantime it'll do for a mock-up. I know what you're thinking, why not just go with the 5? Yeah, I'm considering that too. Guess I could upgrade later.
Jim
Jim, Maybe get a partial refund . run the #'s challenged trans and save for what your "really lusting for", u-no, the (8) speed ? Meanwhile, you can put a nano-second, spark kill and fool the motor into thinking itsa 6 speed ? Good Luck, roverman.
Don't suppose you mentioned your professional status to ole "I got tons of six speeds" at the junkyard, did you? He should know better than to stick it to a barrister.
Rover bell for a ZF 4hp22
IMG_0725.jpg
I seem to remember theres a GM180 option for the RV8, would that be any better for a Bellhousing,
Jim B., sorry for the thread jack.
I did a search on ZF 5hpNN and 6hpNN and made some interesting discoveries.
The 6hpXX transmissions have integrated bellhousings.
The 5hpXX transmissions seem to be very similar to the ZF 4hp22 transmissions used on Rovers. I suspect that it is possible to bolt the Rover 4hp22 bellhousing on a ZF 5hp24 or 5hp30 to get a narrow case 5 speed auto that fits the MGB.
As in Jim's case, the challenge will be the electronic controller for the transmission.
Very interesting stuff guys, can we get some more detail shots maybe?
Finally got a reply from Michael today, after I mentioned I might be interested in an 8 speed. (Funny how dollar signs can affect a guy's attitude ;-) ) Actually he's not a bad guy and I didn't mean to be critical. To be fair it's a mistake that anyone could make. Lexus used both the 5 and 6 speed in the SC430 and changed over mid year, plus they both look exactly alike as far as I can tell so you have to cross reference the part numbers. Plus he gave me a killer deal on the 8 speed. It's more than I've ever paid for a tranny in my life, but it's less than half the going rate so I'm pretty psyched.
Anyway, the upshot of it is that we made a deal on an 8 speed out of a 2008 IF-S. This is the transmission that is second in speed only to the transmissions used in F1 cars, which shift in .05 seconds. This one is half as fast at .1 sec but that's still faster than you or me. They also keep the converter locked in the top 7 gears so it acts more like a standard transmission, and there are a few other tricks. But I don't plan to use the Lexus computer to run it, I want to use the Megashift add on to the Megasquirt controller I already have.
So now the dilemma. Do I put in the 5 speed first for the simple install in order to get the car on the road faster, or do I go for the whole tamale? Not a bad choice to have to make, everything considered.
JB
2008?,Man, it's probably just broke in. If you got an older one like me, you would have to decide when you rebuild it. Parts prices bring up the costs quite a bit on a "good deal".
8 speeds...how many overdrives?
8 speeds! We'll have to start calling you "shifty" with that one in the car. As for which to install, what's your estimate on development time? It sounds like the basic shifting controls will be pretty much the same for either, just have to add more levels for the 8 speed, I woundn't think it would take that much longer to get it programmed than the 5 speed. Either one will make the car very interesting to drive with great performance.
Probably granny low in first and top two Overdrive? Let us know when you find out the ratios,just curious.
1
4.596:1
2
2.724:1
3
1.864:1
4
1.464:1
5
1.231:1
6
1.000:1
7
0.824:1
8
0.685:1
R
2.176:1
JB
1-granny-dozer, do you copy ? Soo, soon as you release the brakes, you grab second ?
Looks like it to me. Redline right under the redlight. THAT ought to be a wild ride.
JB
Good thing it is an auto. Can you imagine all the paddling you'd have to do? What are the ratios on the 5 speed?
S'pose, if'n ur in ta "paddlin", LOL. Can you say... Wheelie Bars ? "Real Men Use A Stick".
Should make a real interesting ride in combination with the blown 340. Tell you what. I betcha it'll outrun the MGB-Roadmaster.
JB
A650E
5 Speed Automatic Transmission
Applications:
* 1998-2005 Lexus GS 300 (2nd Generation)
* 1998-2000 Lexus GS 400
* 1998-2000 Lexus LS 400
* 2001-2005 Lexus GS 430
* 2001-2005 Lexus IS 300 (1st Generation)
* 2001-2003 Lexus LS 430
* 2001-2005 Lexus SC 430
Gear Ratios: 1st 3.357 2nd 2.180 3rd 1.424 4th 1.000 5th 0.753 Rev 3.266
Max Power Rating: 325 wheel horse power.
Still waiting on that 8 speed, so I have gone ahead with modifications to the bell of the 5 speed. With some minor trimming of one bump and removal of the pan, the whole transmission fit nicely between centers in my old LeBlond lathe, well actually between the collet chuck and a live center in the tailstock. This wouldn't work with most domestic transmissions but this one had no wobble in the shafts and the park pawl locks up solidly so I decided to give it a try. I cut a counterbore 1/2" deep and 13-1/2" in diameter to accommodate the larger flex plate and ring gear of the 340 (and/or BOPR) and then cut a 1/8" deep by 14-1/2" step on the outside to register concentric and square with the input shaft. So now all I need is a plate with a like sized bore centered on the 340's crank (or BOPR) and the matching bolt and pilot pin pattern. Chances are pretty good it can simply bolt to the bellhousing.
JB
MVC-557F.JPG
MVC-560F.JPG
MVC-562F.JPG
MVC-563F.JPG
Jim,
You are a very brave, but sick puppy. That's got to be a scary amount of mass spinning about. Did you at least drain out the tranny fluid?? And all the floppy bits held together with masking tape. Oy! :)
What rpm did you do the cutting at?
MR
45 rpm. And the scariest part? Lifting the handle to turn it on the first time.
JB
Ya could've at least got out the 200MPH tape. :)
Ive done some crazy turning before, but thats got to be the best!!!!,
Personally, I think I would have unbolted the bellhousing and either mounted it on External jaws or made a custom spigot to mount it from,
But thats because I only have a Colchester/Clausing Student Gap Bed
Can you say..."rotary table" ? Novel approach. I've seen alot This is a first ! Any balls fall out, trans or elsewhere ? Did it, at least, upshift to second ? Was the "govnor" nervous ? roverman.
The Guvnor was a wee bit nervous, indeed. But nothing fell out other than a small bit of oil and all went well. However, on further inspection back on the bench it was learned that originally the torque converter had not seated fully so my 1/2" clearance cut was shallow by about 3/8". That works out OK though because I'll use a 3/8" ring to match the converter to the flex plate and a 5/8" ring to match the bell to the engine and all should be well. After additional measurements to be absolutely certain of course.
On the 8 speed, we are now checking to see if a LS460 8 speed is the same as an IS-F 8 speed, apparently there was some confusion as to which one the yard has. More on that later. For that adapter I may go with thicker ring sections and may eliminate the bellhousing machining operation entirely by using the first plate as a pattern. Yet more measuring of course.
JB
Jim, considered using a B.O.P., B.H. , stick or auto ?(less work at the motor).
Art, I'd like to make something that works with the entire line of transmissions, which would mean everything from the 4 speed through the 8 speed. Since the 8 speed uses an integral bellhousing that means no bellhousing swap. Also, the flexplate is not an easy bolt-on affair as the Lexus 6 bolt converter has a bolt circle that sits well inside the GM bolt pattern, with 3 bolts hitting the thin point of the spider and 2 hitting open areas. Simplest way to deal with that is with a ring or plate to match them up and that means a plate is required between the bell and the engine. A 1" thick plate there will give adequate flexplate clearance and good thread depth, in fact I could perhaps get by with 7/8". That makes the flexplate adapter about 3/4" thick which also gives good thread depth, and both pieces can be aluminum to reduce weight. Cost of materials is an issue, as a chunk of 1" plate nearly 20" square doesn't come cheap, but the flexplate ring can be cut from the drop cut out of the center of the bellhousing adapter, which helps.
Has anyone had experience cutting aluminum with a plasma cutter? Especially aluminum plate. I just wonder how well that works, although ultimately I expect I'll enlist the aid of my good friend Ken Steidle who owns a waterjet machine. That way we can pretty much produce them on demand without running minimum quantities.
This will be my third commercial offering of a transmission/engine adapter and other than materials it is surprisingly similar to the others, which I had manufactured and stocked by Advance Adapters in California after I developed the prototypes. They still carry that line which mated a GM auto to an International Harvester V8.
JB
Here's some information for Jim Nichols. While researching I came across this technical paper on the 4 speed transmissions with details about the control scheme etc. Definitely worth a look.
JB
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h16.pdf
Thanks, Jim. I'm working 6-7 days a week,12 hours a day at the Pulp and Paper Mill, so haven't had a lot of time. Barely time to eat and sleep.Much apreciated!
Whoops, Double post.
Jim, I go by Pull a Part almost every day in Columbia. If you find something there that you want me to checkout let me know.
Tom, It's a long shot but if you happen to run across a Lexus IS-F ask them what they want for the transmission. (If they happen to want anything under a grand for it and it's in good shape, put a deposit on it.) I could also use a bellhousing and a driveshaft from a Lexus 5 speed automatic (Transmission is an A650E but others should be interchangeable). One last item is a transmission control module for a 5 speed automatic. That one may be a problem as a separate control module may be hard to find, but one that is used on a FWD 5 speed may work.
I made some progress on the adapter and have some photos:
MVC-568F.JPG
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MVC-570F.JPG
I drilled and tapped the converter coupler for both the 10" and the 11" - 7/16" flexplate pattern and included another set of holes on the 10" pattern at 3/8" size just for flexibility. Clearances are very tight and it fits like a glove. Lexus threw a wrench into the works by using 9mm bolts but I'll get that worked out. Weight of the converter coupler is a scant 5 lbs so it will have only a small effect on engine response.
Anyway this part is now on hold until I can take the engine off the stand and put it on a cradle so I can check the bellhousing adapter against the block, and that has to wait for a couple of other pieces to be finished, so all I'll be able to do on this for awhile is find the bolts, re-install the pan, and work on the controls.
JB
I've been thinking about the control scheme for this transmission, and I'm currently leaning towards an industrial programmable logic controller (PLC) such as this one:
http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/573684
This particular example is built for harsh environments, submersible to 3 ft, has 4 inputs and 6 outputs, 4 of which are pulse width modulated (PWM) programmable with an integral feedback loop and runs on 8-48vdc. Pretty near ideal, it may have a big brother with a bit more capacity. (The A650E has 7 solenoids)
I'll need to get more info on the control scheme for the tranny before deciding on a controller, but PLC's have been around for at least 30 years and are pretty refined and versatile. There's no reason I can think of that there wouldn't be an off the shelf item that would be perfect for this application.
JB
Michael came through for me on the AA80E at last, and I have it in the lab on an engine stand with the pan and filter off to get a good view of the inner workings. It's a rather beefy unit, significantly larger than the A650E as you would expect from the increased horsepower and torque ratings. It uses a different and slightly larger bellhousing pattern and a larger bolt pattern for the torque converter as well with 10mm bolts instead of the A650E's (oddball) 9mm fasteners. Common hardware bolts fit just fine but hardened bolts will be used. The VIN tag confirmed that it came from a 2008 IS-F.
My local Lexus dealership has been extremely helpful in assisting me with my efforts. Although their parts prices are understandably rather high, their attitude and helpfulness is well beyond reproach and they have gone the extra mile every time I've been down there. That's the kind of help you rarely find and it's really appreciated when you do. Anyway, one of the most significant discoveries was that the IS-F uses a separate transmission control module (TCM). This unit controls all 9 (!) of the shift solenoids and inputs all of the sensor information from the transmission. However, it receives commands from the engine control module via CAN bus, and the ECM tells it when to shift and what gear to select. If there is no CAN bus input it uses only 1st and 3rd gears, from my cursory review of materials just received. What this means in practical terms is that the TCM must communicate with a CAN bus capable unit such as either the stock ECM, one of the later versions of Megasquirt with suitably modified code, or possibly a CAN bus capable PLC. It's also possible that a suitable PLC could control the transmission directly. I have some studying to do to determine which options are the most feasible, but at present I'm getting quotes for the stock TCM, ECM, and related wiring harnesses.
JB
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Nice and narrow. I'd love to see that behind a 4.6/4.9 EFI MGB.
I have experience with programming, even down to 0's and 1's, but there would certainly be a learning curve with this application. I suppose a semi-manual paddle shifter would be one compromise, but a fully automatic option would be a better baseline. Throttle position and manifold vacuum sensors would get you started. Is shift firmness adjustable on this transmission?
Yes, at least 8 of the 9 solenoids use PWM signals and they use the linear characteristics of the solenoids to control engagement, so shift firmness is a simple matter of changing the PWM slope. I'd need a PLC with 8 or 9 PWM capable outputs (one is inverted, apply decreases line pressure) and probably at least ten inputs, some digital, some analog. I have all of the solenoids identified as well as truth tables for on/off conditions so basically we'd be looking at PWM slope and delay/overlap times for a simple manual shift, plus any programming for automatic functions. At least that's my take on it at present. Where are you located Paul?
JB
Jim, I'm in Idaho. Meridian, Idaho, and right on the Boise, Idaho border.
You sound like you have experience with controllers. I have had exposure to them so there's little mystery, but I lack practical experience. Mostly disk drive electronics from the late 80's and early 90's. My background was originally electronics, starting with radio/television. That evolved into digital electronics, especially disk drive controller and host bus adapter (GPIB/HPIB, ST506/WD2010, SCSI, etc), but some PC server stuff, too (ISA/EISA/MCA). Obviously, programming became important after that. I still do some stuff with low-level interfacing, but it tends to be more at a host command level - TCP/IP but more specifically SNMP/PML via UDP.
What I guess you'd be doing is creating algorithms to change PWM signals to control shift points and shift firmness. Sounds easy on paper but there's so many corner cases to account for. Sudden changes in throttle position, sudden changes from acceleration to braking and back, downshifting, and so many more.
I have a knack for that stuff, but there was never much demand for it where I worked. It was always more programming.
Paul, that sounds like just the sort of expertise we need on this project. If you're willing to help on it I'm pretty sure there will be a market demand for a controller, as nobody is offering one. It's something we might be able to offer to the British V8 crowd at the very least. I haven't really looked at the PLC's lately but I expect they rely heavily on cobol and related languages and graphic programming interfaces were becoming popular last time I checked. I have a busy weekend planned but if I can I'll start looking at what PLC's are being offered on ebay.
JB
There's more research to be done but the nano/pico/etc type of PLC looks promising in terms of size and capability. They commonly use a "ladder" type of programming logic. I'll post more information as I get it.
JB
Jim and clan, is it possible, TRD-Toyota racing developement, could lend assistance ?
Jim,
Came across this south African Co. that makes ECU's for auto trans, also very cheap with the dollar/Rand ex, rate.
http://www.spitronics.co.za/
Love the developments on your blown 340, at a lazy 80 BHP per Litre you've got to be looking at 450+ BHP!
Regards,
Kevin
Mr. Blackwood, perhaps you could chime in ? Specifically the V16x, V160 and V161, built by "Getrag' for Mark 4 Supra use, thru 2002'. Reportedly,"much" stronger than R154. ratios: 1=3.821, 2=2.36,3=1.685,4=1.312,5=1,6=.793. Perhaps your, auto trans supplier, has a deal on these ? Anybody? Thanks, roverman.
I've about decided that Michael specializes in top end sports cars, but never having seen his yard I really don't know what he does or doesn't have. Bill Young might be curious to check it out as he's in Bill's area but it's too far for me to go just for curiosity.
Anyway, Art I am totally in the dark on those transmissions you mentioned so can't really help you there. As far as TRD, who knows? But right now I'm trying to get a large diameter boring tool for the mill made up so that I can finish the bellhousing adapter. If I get that done, and the engine in the car before the V8 meet I'll be doing right well, because first I have to bore the center hole of the adapter which is about 13-1/2" diameter and center it on the SBB crank. That is a cut-and-fit, measure, repeat until centered, type operation and with no micrometer dials on the mill it's an interesting challenge. Heck, just cutting the hole round and roughly centered is sort of a big deal since I also have no downfeed on the quill yet and the rough opening is a good 1/2" off center. So it's not quite in the same league as doing the job with a rat-tail-file, but doesn't miss it by all that much.
JB
Jim, can you throw up a sketch ? Sounds like you need a rotary table or a face plate for your lathe ? Lathe will be easier/faster, if you can "swing-it". LOL. Did you have the blank water jetted/roughed out ? Rotary tables are very versatile. I suggest vert/horizontal, much more possibillities. Ok, looks like your lathe isn't a gap-bed, so your plate woun't swing. In leiu of vernier dials on the mill, I suggest a couple of mag bases with adequate travel indicators, to read table and quill movements, (actually more accurite than dials). Good Luck, roverman.
Too big for the lathe, and my rotary table is too small also, but the real problem is that it has to locate off the dowel pins. Not having a print for the BOP bellhousing pattern, I had to transfer the holes from my 2004r case and rough out the center hole with the porta-band. That worked fine but now it's time to finish the center hole. Once that's done I'll clamp it to the AA80E case and dial it in on the input shaft and then drill that pattern, and then a little finish work and it's done. As for the lack of dials, that doesn't really bother me. Standard 5 turns/inch ballscrews, no backlash, and I can just about dial in the right number of thousandths blindfolded. With a pair of locating pins bolted to the table I can take a cut, check the center, put it back and make the corrections, and if I'm not well under .005" by the third shot I'll be very much surprised. I'll be shooting for less than .0005" TIR. But worst case, I could mark the high spot and note the runout figure and match that on the AA80E case and be right on the money. Since it's a stationary part all it really needs is clearance.
But before I can do any of that I have to finish the boring bar holder.
Now the converter adapter may be a different matter. The one I made that fits the 5 speed was cut from the drop and since that is MIC-6 plate I'm considering a complete re-do on that. Billet would be considerably stronger.
JB
The center hole is machined. Woo Hoo!! Almost had to eat my words though, on the second pass I began to doubt I could hit the mark with just one more. But, on the 3rd go around I had .0025" TIR, well under the .005" I had predicted. Part of the problem was that the locating pins were spreading the ring slightly causing the hole to go oval. That meant I had to jack around with the pins on the mill table at the same time I was fighting the x and y axis offsets, and to complicate it further, due to the bind one of the pins was moving just a smidgen every time I took the ring off the mill.
MVC-614F.JPG
Eventually though I got it all sorted out and on the last cut indicated .0002" TIR, which I was quite excited about. But then I thought I'd better put the other three bolts in and see if that made any difference and sure enough, as I tightened them I could feel the plate pull in ever so slightly. Just enough to add another half thou to my reading, putting it at .0007" TIR. RATS! Missed my target. But it wasn't by enough to make it worth another cut so I let it go. To put that in perspective, it means a center-to-center misalignment of .00035" which is about one tenth the thickness of a human hair. Any but the most high precision bearings will tolerate that much misalignment easily so I'm not going to worry about it.
MVC-616F.JPG
You may think this is overkill and that the flexplate will handle it and that is true. But if there is no misalignment to handle to start with everything works better. So next is drilling the holes for the transmission locating pins and bolts and then external clean-up. For that step I will clamp the ring to the bellhousing, dial it in to center, and stress it side to side to bring it to round like it is when mounted to the engine and then transfer the holes.
JB
Jim, Looks like a "lot" of work.Nice progress. I look foward to having "some" time for my progects. I have a10" vert./horiz., rotary table and for larger pcs., I install a "cheater" plate on top,(approx"16" dia. X.5" alum plate). This still clears the crank handle. Not heavy duty, but enough to squeak by. roverman.
Jim, I see TCI is advertising a tranny control with rotary dial or touch pad. I don't know the details or cost.http://www.tciauto.com/Products/Electronics/tcucomponents.asp I clicked on pricing,Ouch! $793.
We rented a Nissan Altima on vacation last week so I got to drive one of the newer 6 speed automatics. This one has two modes. Full auto, or you can slot the shifter over to an up-down shift slot for manual. Now we were in flat Florida and the family was with me so I never had any real chance to wring it out, but my general impressions just driving around were that this new technology is very very good.
Fellas, I think the manual transmission is on it's way out. Seriously.
The brakes otoh, were way touchy.
JB
Jim said: "I think the manual transmission is on the way out". Wasn't that the general consensus, when automatics were first introduced, oh so long ago ? Everything is on the way out, but what time frame ? Perhaps now is a good time to discuss merits of a "pre-selector" manual box ? Should have less parasitic losses than auto's. Computer controlled shifting sequences? Dual inputs allow "preselecting", and reduced shift times/near seamless shifting. Stick it to the pavement. roverman.
Yeah, but this time...
I dunno Art, with all your pre-select, computer controlled clutch and the like I think your manual transmission is morphing into a (gasp!) automatic.
And they said the non-synchro transmission would never die either...
JB
Jeep XJ (Cherokee) AW4 2WD 4 speed Auto with GM TH400 tranny mount. A pic of the TCU(controller) and link to manual shifter page. Jim B., maybe you could use 2 of these in series.
TRANS1.jpg
aw4-6.jpg http://radesignsproducts.com/default.aspx
Homemade paddle shifter for AW4.The guy no longer makes these but used relays and momentary switches to operate. Simple rocker switchs on dash for manual overide of TCU and torque converter lockup.
paddle.jpg
padl_fml.jpg
How about H pattern shifter?
50849600.jpg
It really useful for me, thanks for the info that you guys have been discussing.
It really useful for me, thanks for the info that you guys have been discussing.
Prices have got to come down, but that will happen as time goes on. Jim, I had a look at that link and noticed they have a PLC based shift controller for the 340. That tells me right there that my theory is at least feasible. Very good news, so it should be just a matter of finding the right one and programming it. I also found it interesting that their shifter allows you to start in any gear. I hadn't even considered that. I can see the need for the paddle shifters with the 8 speed with the ratios of the lower gears, and am in fact presently on the lookout for a Jag IRS with a lower gear, I think the 2.88 was common, and that should work well with the AA80E. It will still have a killer first gear and need to be shifted almost immediately on launch. The PLC would allow control of shift firmness, very important for daily driving and for track work or spirited mountain driving.
JB
Jim B., Here you go! 8 speed dash mount paddle shifter!
stuff20242.jpg
I'm back at work on the controls. Jim, that's a pretty slick shifter, shouldn't be too hard to make something similar.
Looking at the MegaShift, I believe the limitation may be what it takes to add an extra 3 PWM output drivers. Hopefully I'll get some sort of an answer to that in another day or two.
JB
Hey Jim,
Looked up your jag diffy. ratios. 2.88 :1 came out in july 1981 and newer HE engined v12s Everything else XJ12 and XJS was 3.31 :1
Late 4.2 XJ6 automatics had a 3.07 :1 and the early ones had 3.54 :1 European models had a vast selection from 4.55 :1 on up.
V12 models had LSD sixes did not.
Hope that helps.
It never occurred to me to use a PLC for an automatic trans controller. What a great idea!
I've been getting mine from www.automationdirect.com They have several very versatile 12volt units available at a reasonable price.
I use them for everything from door locks to suspension control.
I haven't used an electronic auto trans because of the controller issues.
And was looking at the megasquirt system but didn't want to get that complex the first time out.
But the PLC idea I'm comfortable with.
Wah hoo.... here we go.
Cheers
Fred
Fred, do you know of a good PLC with 7 or 8 PWM outputs, a few aux outputs and a dozen or so inputs both digital and analog? (CAN bus might not hurt either)
JB
Jim, have a look at the automation direct D0-6DD2-D. 20 inputs 16 out and 4 expansion slots.
The D06 line has a lot of variety in the 12-24 volt range
Might pay to call them for a recommendation. Their tech line is superb.
Cheers
Fred
Thanks Fred. It certainly is compact enough and sounds pretty impressive going by the stats, but I'm learning as I go here, PLCs have advanced greatly since I was last exposed to them. So I'm hoping you can enlighten me and whoever else might be paying attention.
First, I have seen that some PLCs are capable of communicating via CAN bus (Controller Area Network) which is a 2 wire network using matching chips at each device and some sort of termination at the ends as I understand it. This would presumably allow contact with MegaSquirt and other controllers (common with newer cars), providing an easy input of several analog inputs such as TPS, MAP, and coolant temp as well as engine speed and cutting the input needs by that much. So apparently a good feature to have. It can also be used to enable automatic ignition/timing, fuel, and IAC changes during shifts for smoother up and downshifts.
Then additional inputs are ATF temp and ATF pressure, both of which are analog. Then the control inputs are at least two lines from the shifter for reverse and drive, both lines high could be used for Manual Mode, plus two lines for shift+ and shift- which could be paddle shift, console, or both.
Finally brake, possibly Kickdown (could be enabled in software) and personally I'd like to enable a "Clutch" function for stoplight throttle blips and overcooked corners. (NOT launch control) Oh, and output shaft speed.
So at a minimum that's CAN, plus 2 analog, plus 8 more digital inputs, or without CAN, 5 analog and 9 digital inputs. Plus one more digital input for my clutch function.
For the AA80E which has 9 solenoids I would need 7 PWM outputs and 2 solenoid drivers plus 1 speedometer driver, 1 odometer output and an output for a gear indicator (4 lines to drive a 7 segment display ?)
I think that is pretty complete.
JB
Jim I don't think I can program that with my VIC-20.
Seriously, thats above my skill level. But I am going to set up a test board and figure it out.
I have a DD2-D ordered and a megasquirt system without a home at the moment so maybe some communication can be figured out. I'm not sure that CAN is the right answer. I know it's widely used in the automotive world but it's pretty unstable and with two systems so dependant on each others inputs, if one glitches they all do. Just look at Audi's little CAN nightmare. Driving past an old Chevy with an unfiltered ignition can unroll your windows and put you in 2nd gear.
Anyway we'll give it a shot.
Any help from the crowd would be welcome.
Cheers
Fred
Lexus and other car brands use CAN bus pretty extensively, maybe it's just a matter of proper shielding. I've never seen cheaper/crappier shielding than what the auto manufacturers use on a regular basis so maybe that's the problem.
Anyway, I wanted to tell you that this isn't the only approach, even though it could turn out to be the better one. Lance over on the MegaSquirt forum seems pretty fired up about this Lexus 8 speed and he's taken an interest in making the MegaShift work with it. Both approaches are viable. I've also sent another email to my Lexus contact to try for an intro to the Toyota R&D to see what they can do for an aftermarket product but no response yet from him. That strikes me as the slowest and most expensive solution but ultimately it could be the most thorough.
So far there seem to be only three of us who are pursuing this idea with any sort of dedication, you, me and Jim N., although several more have contributed in a number of ways. That makes us pioneers I guess, so I'd say we'll get farther if we stick together. There are a few others who are with us now on the MegaSquirt and that system is starting to gain some traction. I don't know if anyone had a MS in an MG before I did or not, there may have been someone somewhere. But I can tell you I sure was glad when Bill came on board. That's very similar to where we are right now with the transmission control.
JB
Jim, I went Whitetail hunting recently and a friend has a new Tundra. Nice floor shift with a slot over at Drive position for Manual and up and down shift buttons similar to the Volvo one I showed a while back.Only 6 speed though. Our Honda Quads have 5 speed electric shift up and down buttons also.Maybe look in the wrecking yard at the Lexus 8 speed shifter? I have it easy with only 4 speeds,Manual button,relays for sequential up and down shift,TQ lock up button,TPS and stock controller box.Good luck, and keep us posted. We use a lot of PLC's where I work,mostly GE Genius blocks. I think with age the failure rate seems high. We joke about them being not so Genius blocks.
As things stand right now, the MegaShift guys (Lance mostly) have made some progress on the AA80E controller. I was out of the loop for a month so progress has slowed down but I hope I can get it going again. http://www.msgpio.com/manuals/mshift/AA80E/AA80E.html
I've also made a request for some documentation of the A650E 5 speed transmission. Some will recall I had been planning to use that one until the 8 speed was available but now Dan B would like to use it in his TR7 so maybe we can pursue that as well.
That's about all that's new right now.
JB
Hi Jim, Interesting conversation about trannys. I just went for a ride, it's 60 degrees outside on January 29th. I run a 700R4 with a 2400stall B&M converter, which eliminates the need for computer. With a few upgrades, I push 560 HP through mine and usually manually shift with a B&M megashifter. Once I had It set up by real pro's, It is an instant shifting 4 speed with overdrive. It is so care free. I've had my car to 152 MPH in 3rd,but let off, didn't go into 4th. I like your car, how much power do you have? My car can be seen in the photo gallery under TR6 Rick Vandenberg.
Very nice car Rick. Centerline wheels I'm guessing? Too bad they don't make those in 17". I ran a 700r4 in my truck, a 70's I-H Travelall which my son called a monster truck. I have a 2004r which I considered using but decided I wanted more control than I could get from a mechanical setup, and then I ran across this 8 speed and just had to have it. The good thing is that the control scheme is so similar to the 5 speed that once we have one of them the other shouldn't be hard. But it'll take a little time. As for horsepower, I'm pretty confident it'll be over 300 and that's about as much as I'll claim. Pretty sure I've got that in the bag.
JB
Thanks, Jim. The engine was built by retired Burger King indy car owner/driver Tom Frantz. He works with the pride of GM Racing. Yes, they are old school 3 piece Centerlines, and the rears are 16" wide. I always wanted a set of those when I was young, and couldn't afford them.
Good luck with the 8 speed, that will be very cool. I don't think my brain is fast enough to keep up with all that shifting! Rick
Jim, are you still considering a PLC and a CAN buss to control the auto or was it going to be Megasquirt?
I'm coming up to speed on PLC programming in the Rockwell/AB environment. I suppose it will come down to a matter of what is cheaper.
Paul
Pretty much. I think the GPIO board for the MS runs a couple bills, I'll have to check. Preliminaries look like it might work out OK. The files for the Toyota/Lexus AA80 8 speed and also the A650E 5 speed are uploaded to threads on the Megashift forum. There's a good bit more work to do but I think it looks doable enough to justify buying the hardware. I'll be closer after I get the wiring harness and finish some more of the mechanical work on the car and that's waiting on warmer weather. Really, I'm putting this off about as much as I can, but by late spring it's going to have to move forward.
JB