Ya know what would be awesome? If somebody told me that Rover has starter solenoids in different locations. I based my header fabrication leaving what I thought was tons of space for the starter. Turns out the solenoid interferes directly with one of my primaries. Anybody got an idea for me so I don't have to scrap my entire right header and start over?
Thanks team.
Well, IIRC, Ford puts the solenoid on the firewall or inner fender.
OK here's what I bought:
(http://www.powerstores.co.uk/imgs/store_gallery/E6531%5DR.jpg)
This would work great!
(http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/ProductImages/Large/GRID007522.jpg)
Is this the same as the above?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-STARTER-Land-Range-Rover-Discovery-V8-Triumph-TR8_W0QQitemZ350290025582QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item518ee99c6e
OR would it work?
Nicolas,
Assuming that you are fabricating "block hugger" headers (vs through the wheel well) and need the best clearance to the starter/solenoid, you need a starter that has the solenoid on the bottom (like the second ebay photo in your post).
If you already have a starter with a top or side mount solenoid, and as an alternative to a new purchase, you might want to contact Dan or Mark at D&D as they have a rework service (at least for BOP aluminum starters) that will reindex the solenoid for clearance.
Sweet. Thanks Graham.
Uhh Nic, I think I'm seein the solenoid on top in pic.# 2? About 9'o-clock on #1 ?(worst case senario). I'm thinkin #2 should clear? Good Luck, roverman.
QuoteI think I'm seein the solenoid on top in pic.# 2?
You could be right Art - another case of optical confusion.........but the bottom line is that Nic's application needs the solenoid on the bottom.
That's true. It could be, since this is a "gear reduction" starter, that it's actually the solenoid that's inline with the gear and that is the motor underneath. Either way, it looks like it'll fit. Definitely more expensive by a long shot but I'm just not in the mood to disassemble these headers again.
Thanks for the input, guys.
How-bout, "you folks" find a motor/gear reduction, like Nippon Denso etc., on the cheep, decide on (1) index for the solenoid, HP etc. ,Vote and perhaps then I can build "noses" similar to sbc-aftermarket? roverman.
Ok. I'm willing to look around. You're saying look for an SBC listing? They always get the cheapest stuff
Nic and all, yes and no. The biggest expense in aftermarket gear reduction starters is the billet nose piece. The motors and gear reductions are likely, "somebodies", oem. Yes you can buy sbc all day long, pretty resonable, but still paying a premium for the nose you won't use. roverman.
So do we get like a Dodge Dakota gear reduction starter and mill the nose off? or something? They look like they are cast with a nose already. Sorry if that's a stupid question. I'm just trying to wrap my brain around it. Thanks Art.
OK so this pic is of a, sort of, base starter. Then the flange is made separately. right?
(http://www.gustafsonmachine.com/tr4.jpg)
Here's another one, I think. This guy make custom gear reduction starters for flathead fords:
(http://www.autoelec.com/assets/images/2N-9NSide_funk.jpg)
Do we deal with a guy like this?
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/229567253/STARTER_28100_72010.html
"Open SESAME"!
LOL! Priceless.
Good diggin Nic. So maybe "borrow" one from auto store and do a mock-up? Looks like nose can be re-drilled to rotate, dia. and depth? Pinion gear is right dia. and correct stroke ? Good price? Let's start somethin,roverman.
Do you mean a Rover one? I'm in.
Nic, I think your pic. of Dodge Dakota with bolt-on nose? Maybe do a mock-up to a Rover/Buick? roverman.
Yeah, sorry Art. My post was totally confusing. I was linkin' round with my head cut off at that moment. That is actually a custom starter a guy makes for a flathead engine. Here's a pic of the Dakota. I don't think it's the same base unit. That's been the tough part, finding the right base unit...
(http://www.goldaclive.com/ebay/C17785A.jpg)
I figure we should look for a different one...
We gotta figure out what base starter these guys are using. It's being adapted for a bunch of different cars. Here's some pix. They are using some base unit or they are making the whole gear case too.
Picture-10.jpg
Picture-14.jpg
OK, How bout, Hop-Sing of "Alibaba"? former post? roverman.
My hi torque gear reduction mini starter for my rover 3.5 needed to be replaced.
I contacted a large starter re-builder in Vancouver Canada and shipped them off my starter to be re-built. They told me they could provide a me with a starter which is suppose to be a Bosch gear reduction starter made for Land Rover and will fit my application. (Cheaper too)
It's identical to the one NixVegaGT bought. And it doesn't fit either.
Last thing I asked him before he shipped it. "Is the solenoid in the same location as the starter I sent you?"
Now I have to ship it back (3 shipping charges) and get after them to get me the right one, or re-build mine (if they still have the core). What do you think the chances are they are unable to supply for OUR application and I end up re-purchasing from the original supplier
At any rate they told me the starter I sent them was a Nissan and the gear part was made up by the person I bought the starter from..
Bruce
WOW. Sorry Bruce. That sucks.
Ok, Let's move-on-then. "Tilton" copy on the way,"cheep",2hp., should be enough? Bruce does your GR. starter have bolt-on, billet nose? This starter,"Might" fit your nose.If I can make this work, I'll be makin,lot's of noses, probably with multiple indexes. roverman.
For those,"difficult" swaps, Toyota, series II, MR 2, gear red. starter ,tranny-side,spins correct. roverman.
You mean like this:
hi_test1989MR2_2.jpg
hi_test1989MR2.jpg
Looks like it might almost be a direct fit!
M.
Martin, close. Series II starts in 1990. I don't know if "turbo" starter has more poop.Only for "out-back" installs, on CR engines.roverman.
Nope. no bolt on aluminum nose.
With regards to my starter dilemma, I called the company and calmly explained my stater problem. With no prompting he told me to send it back COD and he still had my original starter so he is now going to source the parts to repair it.
Isn't that the way it is. You figure your going to have a big problem and everything goes as smooth as glass.
Here is a picture of the original starter (after conversion)
starterinplace.jpg
In the past I have modified rover starters , cutting off the bolt lugs, and reducing the size of the pinion support so the starter can be rotated to clear, I made small machine type clamps to retain the starter, but I cant see any reason why 2 lengths of threaded bar and a plate across the back of the starter would not work, or even weld the lugs back in a differernt place,
On the MR2 starter. Are you saying it spins correctly if we mounted it on the tranny side? Or just tried mounting it in the stock location?
Yes Nic Ol' chum, it's an oem. reverse rotation starter ! Happened to come with one of the T-axles. Most Toyotas are clockwise rotation on the front veiw of crank, so yes, its spins conventional engines correctly from tranny side. Opens up some clearence options/no exhaust cooking.roverman.
Bruce and clan, FWIW, I have genuine "Tilton", it looks identical to yours Bruce, only cast nose is machined-off to take a replaceable billet nose. 2010-I'm gonna start somthin! roverman.
Art, I have heard of 5 axis automated milling machines that can take a program and machine parts. The place I work has them, making oddball prototype stuff. I often wonder why adapters are so expensive when they could be produced on a machine like this in a matter of minutes. I paid D&D $200 for a simple plate to adapt a Ford T5 to the BOP 215 3sp bellhousing. The cost of the aluminum blank for that job would have been, what, $30? Rather profitable part, that plate.
So, I wonder how hard it could be to design a replacement nose for a gear reduction starter. Hell, a fella could design numerous noses for a variety of starters and bellhousings/blocks.
(It also begs the question of; why are roller cam blanks so damned expensive? Is the cam material that costly?)
A company called McLeod Industries (www.mcleodind.com) makes a gear reduction starter with various adaptor plates, including on for the Buick 215.....
mcleod.jpg
But if anyone wants to make their own, here are the stock measurements.
35259400_dim_f.jpg
35259400_dim_s.jpg
Regards,
M.
Paul,
I would think you need to factor in the cost of that machine, design time and the rather limited demand for the part.
Paul and all, demand, volume,overhead,"product liability insurance"(biggie)-I'm not sure how China is on this one. Paul, you paid $200 for a $5. piece of alum., in the right configuration, because you couldn't/wouldn't, do it yourself ? Time versus $, most of us are up against it. #8620 cam billet steel is relatively cheap. Lack of "volume" ,for sbb/Rover, billet cams, makes them expensive. One need only shop roller cams for"popular" engines, more 8620 steel in them, and yet very good prices."Tilton" style gear red. starters, new, e-bay, $70., all day! Why?, volume/China. I'm goin with starter(left) in pic's, Tilton copy. It's available/ready for bolt-on nose. Remnant alum.,small quantities, $3.50 lb.? New, large quantities, $2.50 lb.? If "we", placed an order for (50) roller cams, you can bet, it would be a very good price. Wow!, my first "soap box" for 2010- Thanx, roverman.