MGB Cargo Bay Car

[BlownMGB-V8]

Sounds like something worth looking into.

Didn't get much done yesterday but I did get the lever arm attached to the belt clutch for the pressure washer and worked on the loading spring. Today I need to make up the lower spring mount and I've mostly figured out how to do that. It's such a strong spring (think small diameter garage door spring) that I need a mechanical means of stretching it as the bottom mount is secured. I think I've got it now but it was a puzzle that I've been working on for days. No photo of that yet because I haven't built it but probably tomorrow. It involves leverage.

What I do have is the promised photo from yesterday. Two in fact. First the view from the front:



Then a closer look at the rear axle as mocked up.



What is perhaps evident from these shots is that full compression of the suspensions may or may not be enough to get the car into the bay. I *think* the front may be OK and there is a certain amount of space above the engine in the bay of the bus which could help, I'm not sure at this point. I also still have a layer for flooring to remove from the bay. At the rear I may need to make a bit more room for the axle to move up into the bodywork. More measurements are needed at both ends and to get those at the front I will need to make up lines for the air bags and hook up the vacuum pump to pull them down to get an accurate read. Good thing I'm in no particular hurry.

The axle itself looks OK but needs 4 donuts turned in the lathe to use in aligning the ends for welding and I may have to buy material to make 2 of them. I had found 4 pieces for the full banjo housing but for the Salisbury bearing ends I need something larger so that means more scavenging to see if I have a couple pieces that will work. I might get around to that today and if I do I'll soon be doing more lathe work, which I sort of enjoy. I have some 1" stainless TGP (turned, ground and polished) billet round stock that's been living in the metal rack since practically new so that shouldn't be warped and should make an adequate alignment bar for setup purposes. I've known some to use a heavier bar on the 8" housing but for a one-off the 1" bar should prove sufficient. It's not like I will be going into production on these things. I think what I'll do is cut off the ends of the salisbury to mock up a 50" total axle width and see what that looks like. If it's close enough in alignment to satisfy me I'll use the housing I have already prepped. The stub ends were really the main problem with it and the hybrid ends solve that issue. I'm pretty sure the damaged area was cut out when I narrowed it so this should work. Then with the 3.9 hog's head and MGB axle flanges and brake shoe retainers I think it will be complete. I will test fit both WW and disc wheel drums to the RX7 wheels of course to see which one will work and use the disc wheel drums if I can.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

The disc wheel drums will work fine so that's what I'll use. I will have a spare set of WW drums if anyone needs them.  Only one of the pinions move on the excavated axles and not very far so those may not be very good. Fortunately I have the gear set from the Salisbury, I wonder if they are interchangeable with the banjo? Guess I might find out. Looks like today is the day to spray away the grime.

I wonder if everybody else is feeling the general decline in energy that I'm sensing around here? Seems to happen just about every year around this time. I suspect it has to do with the weather. Maybe in a sense we do sort of hibernate. Don't get out much, spend less time outdoors, watch more you-tube and TV, play more video games and maybe even post less on the forums. Progress slows to a halt almost at times. I try to keep a singular goal in mind: Every day almost without exception, try my best to at least accomplish one small task even if it's nothing more than finding that particular bolt I need.

I'm happy to report that yesterday I completed the work on the pressure washer, so today the plan is to fire it up and use it. It's as ready as it ever will be. This is a mid level unit really, 12hp Onan twin backed by a 4gpm 3500psi pump. It'll do a pretty good job of blasting the undercoating off, but it was on a rather unwieldy vertical cart which I reworked into a horizontal one with large wheels. Much easier to move around now. Hopefully the belt clutch will work properly this time around and not result in burning up the pump valves again. If it does I'll try to invest in all metal valves next time.



It may not look like much but this unit has the potential to outlast me and do some very good work in the process. Edith wants us to clean the sidewalks around the house with it and she has one of those whirligigs for the job.



Here's the business end and between this shot and the next you can see the long clutch arm in the engage and release positions.



It has a unique sliding mount for the bottom spring attachment point that vastly amplifies the over-center function. There's actually a good bit more tech in it than first appears. For instance, the sliding rod, being stainless is a dissimilar metal to the end brackets it is located by, giving it some native resistance to galling and friction. Also if the rod decides not to slide, the spring is likely to slide on the rod, accomplishing the same job. Hopefully it will work better than it looks.



And, here are the ends of the Salisbury axle housing The tube walls are *not* excessively thick as has been suggested, being about 1/16" thicker than the walls of the banjo tube housing and therefore quite reasonable at a little over 3/16". Next step is to cut the donuts to line everything up and cut to length for welding. I did find some material to cut the second pair from, lying about the shop, so that's all good.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

Yesterday was a pretty good day in spite of the drizzle all day long. I finally fired up the pressure washer and it performed as expected. The new belt clutch mechanism was actually better than I had hoped, giving full positive drive and full release so that was a resounding success. This is a pretty critical issue for reducing the odds of burning up the valves. When a pressure washer sits and runs on the bypass, meaning that the same slug of water gets continually pumped through the head because the operator released the valve at the wand and, oh I dunno, threw the wand down to go grab another beer maybe, that water in the head can turn to superheated steam and get hot enough to melt the plastic used to make the valve bodies. Releasing the belt clutch prevents this by disconnecting the pump drive. Of course a direct drive setup can't do this, so a saavy operator will use an electric pressure washer instead. In the old configuration my unit would stall out the motor which also worked until I "fixed" it. Then I melted the valves. Being just a pressure washer of course it wasn't able to remove the rust or the worst of the 60 year old grime but a new nozzle should improve that. It currently has a pipe plug with a hole drilled through it, regular production nozzles have a cleaner pattern. Paying retail prices for a new set of valves they can easily cost $80 a set. That's what I paid but as I said to the counter guy, I figured half of that was paying to make sure I had the exactly right parts for the pump. Same deal with the universal bypass that I bought which cost even more. He provided me with a parts book page in case I needed any other parts, complete with part numbers. That by itself is an added value. I feel like the deal was a bit costly but fair.

I brought the axles inside and sat them on jack stands to begin disassembly, and after some preliminaries found that all three pinions will now turn freely which is very good news indeed. Two of them felt smooth and the one without axle shafts was grumbly so there is probably rust in that one but it seems there are very good chances that I'll have a suitable 3rd member. Pulling axles and hogs heads today, maybe doing a little lathe work. Pretty good odds of having a complete axle by next week I'd say. I probably should order those suspension arms. Now, where was that program... Had it open but the computer did an update and closed it. Damn thing is so smart it kills me.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

I'll admit it, I have no clue how to use this 4 link calculator (by Dan Barcroft). Half of the input values are unknowns  and the other half need a reference point that I just don't know what it is. Relative to what? Is there anyone in a position to help out a little here? Otherwise I'll just order the link arms and put them where I think they will work.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

Got the axles broken down yesterday and it was mostly good news. The 3rd member on the right below had about a quart of oil in the housing and so remained in what looks like pretty good shape. Absent clear signs of wear or defect it is most likely the one I will use. I notice that in these axles they were still using ball bearings as the side bearings, a decidedly older and inferior method, so I think I will clean up the other one and keep it as a spare for the day when the R&P gets noisy. By then I may know of a suitable tapered set to replace it with, but I also should probably look at the parts in the Salisbury axle. If they will swap over directly I could fit them into the MGA casting. I can toy with that in my spare time I suppose. I don't recall seeing any backlash adjusters, uses shims I suppose. So a blend of old and new using the worst of each  ;-)  No really I mean, ball bearings and floating axles? I can see why the Salisbury was considered an upgrade.



Here's my stock of early MG axles. If anyone wants one or two better let me know now. It's a high grade of alloy steel and makes quite good punches and chisels, and can be heated and quenched to hold a good edge. I expect I'll whack off and scrap the splined hubs and stick the shafts in the metal rack for later use. The other two can have the flange cut round and reduced a bit to make a nicely guarded drift for sledge hammer use. I have 4 alloy hogsheads, one will go in the car, one will be kept as a spare, one will be mocked up with the Salisbury gears and that leaves one to set up the axle housing for welding. Afterwards I may scrap out a couple of them. I think the left over housings are probably going to the scrappers unless someone wants them. They're pretty rusty though.



The axle without shafts was used for a nest by some small rodent. Probably all I need to say about that.



Should be able to work on turning donuts this afternoon. It's nice weather and the only errand I have left is to go out for Halloween candy. I'm thinking maybe that should be the next priority item.

Jim

[waterbucket]

I'll admit it, I have no clue how to use this 4 link calculator (by Dan Barcroft). Half of the input values are unknowns and the other half need a reference point that I just don't know what it is. Relative to what? Is there anyone in a position to help out a little here? Otherwise I'll just order the link arms and put them where I think they will work.

There are nine pages to the spreadsheet but you input all the info on the main page(1st) some of the figures in the first you will have to guess  but you will have the wheelbase, tyre diameter, tyre radius, and you will have an idea of CG and weight distribution.

It does seem difficult but the axle is your reference point, and the lower arms front mounts are also  fixed if you are using the original spring mounts. This gives you the info to fill in for the LOWER arms.

Frame end X is the distance from the axle centre line to the chassis mount.
Frame end Y is half of the distance between the lower chassis mounts.
Frame end Z is the height of the mount above ground level.
Axle end X is how far forward or behind the axle centre line the lower arm mounts.
Axle end Y is half the side to side distance between the axle X mounts.
Axle end Z is the mounting height above ground level of the axle x mounts.

All of those dimensions are mounting positions not arm lengths.

The upper arm mounts are determined in the same way, however they are more adjustable in the angle that you run them at, I have run mine at forty degrees but I have read that some have gone as low as thirty.

Once you have got all the mounting points fixed you will see that the geometry summary changes even with small changes to the mounting positions, moving the lower chassis mounts closer together tends to reduce both binding an roll oversteer.

By moving the various mounting points, you alter the geometry . In practice you don't actually move  the mounts, you will probably have  a choice of two sets of hole drilled on the axle brackets and possibly on the body mounts. I also found that there was about an 3/4" side to side movement on each of the lower link mounts. This gives a total 3" in/ out adjustment depending on the width of your bushes.

The vector calculations will give you the calculated lengths of the arms which is not always the same as the distance between the mounts in particular the upper diagonals.

The travel (2) will give more info on the geometry and it is here that you can move the axle up and down for bump and droop and see the roll centre and pinion angle changes  The only number to change is the Travel Amount,  I just leave  the increment and pinion angle ones at 1.

I hope this helps.

[waterbucket]

In case you haven't noticed I have edited the above post to make it clearer , well clearer to me.

[BlownMGB-V8]

That gets me motivated this morning, time to get out there and take some measurements and write them down. Hey here's a question though, in looking at some stock GM control arms, the A body used a 22-3/8" lower arm but the G body used a 19-1/2" lower arm. They both used 11-1/4" upper arm. Which do you think would work better here? I think I can fit either one in but I'm kinda leaning towards the shorter one.

Got my donuts turned yesterday and they fit quite nicely. I'll see if I have a shorter shaft I can use and then mount the carrier and see how centered the ends are. That'll tell me if I can use this housing or not. the final choice may be the one that is the closest to centered at the wheel bearings.

Jim

[waterbucket]

I have no idea what the GM control arms look like but you can make them work if you get the mounting brackets exactly in the right position. For the lower arms that is very simple you get the axle in position and make the brackets to fit. The upper arms the same but you will not be able to adjust anything. Once you play with the calculator you will find that it's very simple to get vast amounts of oversteer. With you abilities and a lathe I would get some off the shelf poly bushes and make your own arms, that way you are in control rather than the pre made arms controlling you.
Can you get these or similar bushes in the USA? perhaps you have a Locost supplier.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/372242138228?_skw=haynes+polybushes&epid=2196776659&itmmeta=01K901BK8QWRX7TC1F0R4RF4SY&hash=item56ab5c4474:g:xLgAAOSw3dtaoA5v&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAAA8FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1dpjIvg7bkX%2B4xmifLDm5G4%2FTQR%2F%2BBquiHIcHw%2FuVpxAQsLLtnkRDqWr5RwaoQQD6HgUy5Y5ktEqB1In3V9syNiY%2F%2B3nKbFXLLwxyOda1fK6iflgWjCxPuL4eAeT7tXfykcfPg4%2BZ71vdo60PSKoJGFAXhFU8Wft0T3TouZgEz3p4bopbuoVnfsgrG4jnCkC1BYoTfWn1iMRvD3agC2FNKoVQlyAWOerr%2BBjzb0dKSdT8KRut%2B2WjwpRqvhApa%2FE%2BWLH%2BPDQ82x4GtCqenzzgSF%2FmMNBVjKduJD%2FcZ3GR%2BMlg%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR4y1roHIZg
And make up something like this with LH & RH threads;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181622467802?itmmeta=01K9016XPM8PV1J6KAGN3AK947&hash=item2a498aecda:g:8X0AAOSwuMFUmKXb
Although I suspect the speedway kit is just as cheap as buying the polybushes, not sure if the nylon bushes would work though..

[BlownMGB-V8]

I broke the calculator, maybe opening it in OpenOffice didn't help. I'll try it again in the morning and since I was getting some very strange results I will start with what is already loaded in it and try to understand what is going on. For instance if I change the tire size from 39 or whatever it is to 21.5 in the main tab the size of the circle for the tire doesn't change. In the travel tab it does.

Jim

[waterbucket]

I don't think that you broke anything at all, I did have the main diagram working for a long time but then it just stopped, fortunately by that time I had saved a couple of configurations and after reloading them I found it had made no difference to the calculations, I think it is an unintended enhancement (Bug!), I just ignored the main diagram. I had my sinuses rebored on Thursday so my brain still hasn't fully recovered from the anaesthetic yet, my brain is a little fuzzy but I hope these screenshots may help you. If you load the dimensions onto the calculator from the first screenshot (I have made a guestimate) you should end up with the screen looking like this;

If you now look at the vector calculations you will see that although you entered a 10" linear length for the top arms the software has calculated the diagonal length is 14.9". This is why it is so hard to design around fixed length arms and why adjustable ones are easier to work with.

The final screenshot is the travel and is where there is a lot of information, if you play around with the Frame End mounting positions,   in particular the height (angle) up or down of the top arms and the same with the lower where it is easier to adjust at the axle end if you are using the leaf spring mounting holes. I have lowered those mounting positions by about 11/2" though.

[BlownMGB-V8]

It's working better since I installed open xlsx plus and enabled macros, maybe I should try enabling the macros on openoffice and see what it does. Right now what I don't understand is that it's showing my pinion change as 180. That can't be right. I'd print the screen here so you could see it but I don't remember how that's done. I'll play with it some more, open the file fresh and see at what point the pinion change goes from zero to 180, maybe that will give me a clue.

I now have the axle assembled with the guide rod and ready to weld up the housing as soon as I'm happy with my mig settings. I loaded some .045" wire and it's running cold. Not sure I like that wire, it's barely able to feed it properly so I don't think I'll be buying more of it but for now I'd like to run through it. Probably have to crank up the voltage or cut the feed speed or maybe both. Need to get more heat in the puddle. This cheap mig welder seems to run best on .030 wire. Maybe it would like .035 just as well, I now have a spool of each to try I think. It didn't like the .021 much and isn't very good with the .045 but with 30 or 35 I think it'll be fine. Wish they had mentioned that in the promotional materials.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

I welded up the housing yesterday so today I'll be removing the guide rod and donuts, I hope that goes smoothly. I tried to keep the warpage to a minimum. Cranked up the juice on the mig welder though to get a nice wet puddle and discovered it has the ability to more than double the default settings so it's only real shortcoming is with the wirefeed. Too many bends in the stinger and it can't push the wire. Other than that it's OK. So I got good solid welds. Should work fine for the axle shafts too where I can really crank it up. Got some lathe work before I can do that.

$135 for 8 bushings and 4 arms seems pretty reasonable, I don't think I can make them for anything close to that and getting the lengths to match the calculator sounds like a matter of working backwards which I can do but before I can get anywhere with that I need to figure out what's up with the "pinion change". I'll try to put in some more time on that later today.



Ready to weld



matchup is pretty close, this is the worst spot



And as completed, ready to remove the guide rod and donuts.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

Since I committed the sin of double posting I might as well add that the shaft came out with the persuasion of a big deadblow hammer but looks good. I mocked up and marked the axle shafts and have one in the lathe now for shortening, I will be centering the pinion in the tunnel so they will be different lengths. The center housing is ugly on the outside but feels tight. I should have a complete assembly of the proper width in a few days.

But I'm not feeling particular energetic so I probably need another cup of tea.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

Coffee instead, the result of which was this:





Apologies for not taking photos in-process but I's a little wound up at the time, it were strong coffee. It went something like this. Below about 1/2" diameter on the section to be removed the chatter started and things began to move around so I whacked off the stubs and drilled them for a 1/4 x 1-1/2" dowell pin, removing 2-5/8" from one and 3-3/8" from the other. Gives roughly the same track at the rear as at the front I guess. Placed between centers I next used the TIG to fuse the centers, adding a bit of 308 stainless to the mix and then finished it off with a series of HOT passes from the MIG. loaded with .045" 7018 wire. Back into the lathe and after a series of cycles over to the press for straightening, a cleanup of the welds. If in the last shot it appears the ends are a bit far apart, bear in mind the bearings haven't been seated yet. Should be fine. A little clean up, another check of straightness, and ready for assembly today.

Not perfect, but they weren't perfect when I started either, maybe somebody was doing burnouts but it wasn't me. The car only had about 40k on the clock, I don't even know why it was torn down. Word was for 'restoration' but I'm thinking it was just busywork. At any rate should the axles prove too wobbly there's always Moser to turn to. Not a concern today and maybe not ever, but they seem to be the present go-to for all things axle-y. A sound tactic but maybe not one that would have worked here. At any rate it's good to have that part done and down to assembly work.

In other news, I've had a bit more success with the 4-link spreadsheet. First thing was to enable the macros so it would load properly and with that done I've found that incremental changes usually allow recovery from gross errors. It doesn't seem to take too well to out of bounds entries and of course those were the kind I could be expected to make right off. Creeping up on them is the much better strategy and has thus far allowed me to avoid the dreaded 180* pinion angle change which is essentially impossible anyway. I have however found that it's rather intolerant of LCA x axle pivot locations that are further rearward than the UCA  pivot. Still trying to figure that one out.

But as it stands right now, I have a 13.5" UCA, a 16.3" LCA, no pinion change and no roll oversteer. It seems like a start anyway. I'll be working on those numbers. I need a shorter UCA (11.25" preferred) and a longer LCA (18-1/2 to 22-1/2" provided I can extend it to or beyond the axle centerline, I don't know why that would be a problem.)

Jim

[waterbucket]

I'm glad it's coming together now. I sort of remember having similar problems when I started using it.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Here's a set of arms that looks interesting:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/284616707470

I asked the seller for the length of the bottom arm. I can work with the range on the top arm I'm pretty sure. No real info on the width of the bushings, although I'm beginning to think that rectangular tubing might be the way to go. It makes it easy to bolt on a sway bar if it's needed. I could cut and shut these for a custom length. Pretty easy mod.

Right now I've got 4 degrees of roll oversteer and 1/5 of a degree of pinion angle change on 5" of travel. What else should I be looking at?

Jim

[waterbucket]

Jim, I used these tubes but they were much cheaper when I bought them; https://www.speedwaymotors.com/5-8-Inch-Chromoly-Swedged-Tubes,49536.html However I just looked a little more and this seems a good deal, they look very similar to those that Bill Guzman uses. It states that they come with polybushes, mine came with shiny black nylon.
Two of these; https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Aluminum-Tie-Rod-Sleeve-5-8-Inch,2087.html?sku=91034158-8 @ $9 each
and two of these; https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Aluminum-Tie-Rod-Sleeve-5-8-Inch,2087.html?sku=91034158-17 @ $22 each
and these; Speedway Forged 4-Bar Rod Ends, 3/4-16 LH & RH w/Jam Nuts @$157 That little lot totals $219
You might find a heaper combination of swedged rods or even make your own but as you rightly said sometimes its cheaper and easier to buy ready made. I will be able to measure the rod ends on Friday you give you a better idea of how much the rod ends extend beyond the tube.
I am not the right person to give advice on the precise setup but I decided to try and get zero steer, however I have noticed that Bill recommends some roll oversteer. Whether that is because there is a benefit or is due to the design and he has not corrected it is unknown. I don't think that you will ever need an anti roll bar at the back, partly due to the design giving neutral steer, partly because I don't think you will be bothered if it did turn out to have under steer, I am sure that your wife won't want the tail hanging out and partly because an anti roll bar will exacerbate  the tail letting go.

[BlownMGB-V8]

All good points and I do need to spend a bit more quality time with the app to see if I can improve things further. Do you have any insight on the anti-squat? My likely misunderstanding of it centers around the assumption that anti-squat will cause a jacking effect on acceleration which helps plant the tires and conversely a squat effect on braking, reducing weight transfer and reducing the effectiveness of the rear brakes and slightly destabilizing the rear when braking in corners. So while a little may be good, a lot probably isn't unless it's a drag car. (I've ridden in one of those which hopped like a rabbit when the owner planted his foot. Quite the ride but not for my car.) Which brings up the question of what would be reasonable limits for an MG that isn't drag raced. I'm currently showing 10% static and -128% travel. Is this bad?  I have no clue as to the dynamics of that. Does it mean the car tries to squat when the suspension droops? Can't really see that as being a wonderful development as it would tend to pull the tires off the ground just when you need traction.

Anyway, I made an offer on those bars I linked to and we settled on about $200 all in including taxes and delivery which leaves the questions of the bushing width (need 2-3/16") and the LCA length which I can cut and change as needed. I run a rear bar on my roadster to give neutral handling and being a narrower car feel like it might come in handy here. E never drives at the cornering limits so not much concern there. Neutral would probably suit her fine if she ever got there. I like the absolute simplicity of the stock bar as used by GM. It simply bolted in 2 places to each lower arm and ran across under the diff. Can't get much simpler than that. These arms may or may not have the tubing stiffeners in the cross holes, I'll have a look at that when they get here. I am also planning to move the holes in the forward spring mounts back up to about the CB location as that helps quite a bit with the geometry and puts the LCA axle mounts further off the ground. I'd love to have 6" of clearance there but I don't think that's happening.

So what are your thoughts on the anti-squat?

Jim

[MGBV8]

All this for space saver spare tires?

[BlownMGB-V8]

Might seem a bit much, but consider, any passenger car has gone through much more than this so it probably makes at least some sense to try and get it right.

I'm presently at zero roll oversteer, 0.02 pinion angle change, but minus 24 percent anti-squat. I haven't found the best points to move for changing the anti-squat yet so a bit of experimentation is in order I think. I've been reading up on it and it looks like a figure between 80 and 120% is considered good. With a few changes I can hit 62% anti-squat and .07 pinion change but about 7 degrees of roll oversteer. So I suspect I might be trying to find a balance point between roll oversteer and anti-squat. Given a choice between the two I think I might want to minimize the roll oversteer. I've seen a figure of 5 degrees bandied about but it's uncertain if they were referring to oversteer or understeer. I think that would make a difference. Probably safest to shoot for zero. Of course then I'm into negative numbers on the anti-squat. I've seen up to about 180% used for drag racers. If going below 100% has an equal effect to going above it, that could translate to some pretty radical suspension compression when hitting the gas. So I'm having a little trouble finding safe middle ground.

Jim

[mgb260]

Jim, This site may be helpful:

https://www.crawlpedia.com/4_link_suspension.htm


Repaired link.

[waterbucket]

It has taken me a while to find the exact 4 Link file and this still isn't the one! but is very close to what I ended up with. My mistake was creating numerous permutations and just numbering them then going back and modifying them. I then compounded that by not labelling the final one with a name. As I remember the anti squat target for me was 35%, I have no idea if that was a good figure except that I had read that 100% was an absolute no no. Again if I remember correctly another article read that it should be below 50% for a road car. I haven't managed to open the Crawlpedia link but do remember looking at it a couple of years ago, academic for me now. .

[BlownMGB-V8]

I see your link ends are behind the axle, I don't have space above the axle to do that but I am able to move the lower axle pivot back. If I do that at the point they are the same I get a divide by zero error and beyond that it adds 180 degrees to the angle, at least I think that's what it's doing. I'd have to look at the cell formula to be sure and I may try to do that.

But if I'm right, I can just mentally subtract 180 and go on. This would let me use the new arms without changing the length, as moving that pivot point doesn't seem to do much otherwise.

I need clarification about that anti-squat figure. How do you find your car handles hard acceleration? Can you tell if it squats any at all?

Jim

[waterbucket]

My car isn't on the road yet so I have no idea about the handling/ride. The pivots are slightly behind the axle line but only about an inch at the top and perhaps 1/2" below the axle.  I am confident that it will be okay.