'Summit' style mock up block?

[Roverbeam]

So I got a marketing email the other day that had a picture of a sheet metal, tab-and-slot assembled mockup block (it was for an LS - they get all the love these days). I figured I've got most of the RV8 drawn, I bet I can pull shapes from my drawing and get one made for my project.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-774001


I've printed outlines of the individual panels so I can check them against my block, and then I'll add the detailing such as the tabs and slots.

Just for a reality check, I uploaded files of all the pieces to a water jet place, and the quote in .030 steel is about $165, shipped. It'll go up a little as more detail is added, but not much.

Any interest, once I get it all dialed in? Features you'd add, or delete? The Summit ones have brake-bent stiffening edges for some of the longitudinal parts, for instance. Adding the bends would add a little to the price.

I no longer have a 300 block, so I can't check its fit - but I recall the only significant difference was bell housing pattern and deck height?

Not looking to charge anything -I'd just make the cut files available to whoever wants them so you can get your own parts cut. But if there's interest I can maybe move faster!

[MGBV8]

If you don't plan to bolt anything to it, why not make it with foam core board?

[Airwreckc]

I would be interested in a 300 version.  I do also wonder about the same thing Carl mentioned--is there a good reason to make it from steel?

[joe_padavano]

The bare aluminum block probably weighs no more than a plastic or sheet metal mockup. I'm guessing there isn't much of a market for this product.

[Airwreckc]

Joe, that may be true for the Rover or Buick 215 V8s, but the 300 block is cast iron, so I don't want to be moving that around too many times.

[Roverbeam]

The reason for steel, as the Summit ad mentions, is to allow welding and other "rough" fabrication methods.

Motor mounts and headers could be made directly from the buck.

Firewall or frame mods that involve hammers, plasma cutters, a sawzall, and zip disk would be easier with something that can be placed and removed with one hand. The weight in .030 steel of the long block model I have now would be 8.5#.

The drawing files can be pdf and eps, for someone to print and spray mount to cardboard or foam, or send to a water jet if steel would work for your build.

Eric, for the 300 I'd be happy to do a version that pushes the heads out to accommodate the 9.543 deck height, versus Rover's 8.960. You'd have to check your own motor mount hole spacing though (and the bell housing...).


After printing copies of the front, bell, and skirts, checking hole alignment and sizing, I made some adjustments, added tabs and slots, and checked pricing on the updated shapes. Since there's some more complexity and fewer parts can be duplicated for L/R, the price has gone up to $212 at the water jet site I've used.

[BlownMGB-V8]

The 300 uses the same motor mount bosses and the same spacing. I think the bell shares 2 common bolts and the dowel pins. Also has the front and rear lifter valley wall coming up to the intake manifold and straight across.

Jim

[Roverbeam]

Thanks Jim.

I've put pdf's and eps files in a Dropbox folder that I use for engine stuff to share:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/aj86sj1jv7iiuk9/AADfGxZS35tm2zmq3Afnu-qza?dl=0

The only difference between the drawings for the RV8 and the 300 are the shapes of the end walls (since I don't have bell info for the 300).

If you want a steel mock up, upload the eps files from either the RV8 or 300 folder to a water jet company and specify .030 steel for the material.

If you print the pdf's, they're set up for 36"x24" paper, and from Acrobat the Page Scaling needs to be set to "Actual Size", using a printer that allows this page size. Places like FedEx/Kinkos used to have large format printers available, or if you have trouble let me know and I can ship paper copies.

Edit after oil pan discussion going into page 2:
The above files include an oil pan template patterned off of a GEMS 4.0/4.6 engine (and ARE's dry sump pan). I believe it is also the same pattern used for earlier 215's and 3.5's. The Bosch engines, and the 300, each use a different pan pattern, so you'd need to drill your own holes based on your own pan's bolt holes.

[Airwreckc]

Chad, thanks--this is great.  If I want the 300 version, how do I pay you for it?

[Roverbeam]

No money for me, unless it's to cover shipping paper copies.

Download the eps (Adobe Illustrator) files in the "300 Mock Block eps files" folder, then go to a water jet outfit. I used SendCutSend to gather pricing since their site is so easy to use.

Let me know if any steps trip you up.

[Roverbeam]

I do still have a 300 oil pan, and recalled they have a slightly different pattern. Several homes still line up, a few won't.

[Airwreckc]

Thanks Chad, I will give it a try.  I really appreciate it.

[MGBV8]

That 300 pan looks identical to my 215 oil pan.

[Roverbeam]

I don't know what models each of the oil pan patterns goes with. The jogged-over side was on the 300 when it came to me, but if that's a 215 pan that's interesting.

There's a pattern out there that is mostly a rectangle, with one diagonal corner - P6 or some such.

I think all the 3.5, 4.0, & 4.6 Rover engines fit the pattern I used. I'm not a British V8 historian though!

[MGBV8]

No, that is a 300 oil pan.  Mine does not have that offset on the right side.  The other one looks like a Rover 3.9/4.2 oil pan.

[Roverbeam]

The pan with the baffle was on a 4.0

[MGBV8]

Had it been converted back to a distributor driven oil pump?

The 4.0/4.6 uses a crank driven oil pump. Therefore, the pickup is mounted in the front of the sump.  This is the oil pan that is fitted to them.

[Roverbeam]

I've started with a very stock mid-90's 4.0 with crank/gerotor oil pump and no dizzy conversion. I've looked at the bolt pattern underneath and there's no way that oil pan would fit my engine. I've got the old pickup tube in a bin - I'll see where it joins the front cover. I'm all curious now!

This site seems to indicate just the 4.6's used that clipped-corner pan shape?:
https://www.crank-scrapers.com/Buick-Rover.html

[Roverbeam]

Flipped the block and found the pickup tube. Joins the block mid-side.

[MGBV8]

I have one of his crank scrapers for my 3.9 from back in his early days.  His website is not real clear (to me, anyway).

Seems to depend on the year of the 4.0.  I could be mistaken, but I was under the impression that all of the crank driven oil pumps used the front pickup location.  It gets a bit murky as they switched over to the 4.0 & 4.6.
 

https://www.roverlandparts.com/range-rover-oil-pans.aspx

[BlownMGB-V8]

The concentric pump would have the pickup attach to the timing cover I think. So the pan would be just a little deeper in the front.

With the pickup midway the Buick V6 pickup (5/8") is the one to use.

Jim

[Roverbeam]

Here's the 4.0 front cover with crank oil pump, and the port (circled) that is fed from the mid-block pickup.


And here's the oil path from pickup port to crank pump...


I thought the oiling diagram from the 4.0 and 4.6 overhaul manual might add clarity, but its flow paths on the diagram are just generic "tubes", and not actual parts.

Then I saw this a few pages later, showing the sump with a note that its an early engine version. Maybe that's the point of confusion, that there are two flavors of sump styles for the 4.0 and 4.6?:

[BlownMGB-V8]

So what is that port for with the red o-ring in it? Looks like it is for pressurized oil so, gage sender maybe?

Also I don't see why an old style pan would not work there.

Jim

[Roverbeam]

That port in the bottom of the cover is for the pipe to the oil cooler.



Here's the symmetrical style pan gasket pattern (red), versus the one with the extra room for the pickup to feed directly into the front cover like Carl showed earlier:

[MGBV8]

Okay, here's the skinny on the two Rover pans for the 4.0/4.6 V8.  It's GEMS vs Bosch.

"On a GEMS setup that is where the oil pickup tube would mount if I'm not mistaken. Bosch engines = pickup tube runs to the front cover."

https://landroverforums.com/forum/discovery-ii-18/open-port-what-102274/


How to tell a GEMS from a Bosch.

https://www.roverparts.com/techtips/boschvsgems.cfm