Front Suspension Upgrade

Started by Airwreckc, October 06, 2022, 10:12:54 AM

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Airwreckc

#25
October 12, 2022, 03:33:09 PM
Carl, thanks.  I realized the ball joints were there after I posted.  Didn't realize the shock angle was different.

MGBV8

#26
October 12, 2022, 03:49:49 PM
I plan to keep tweaking what I have.
Carl

Airwreckc

#27
October 13, 2022, 09:30:48 AM
I just found this comparison of the Frontline and Hoyle suspensions.  I think I'm going to order the Hoyle, and will try to upgrade it to ball joints with the information posted here.  

http://www.mg-cars.net/mgb-technical-bbs/frontline-front-suspension-2020123114442890666.htm

MGBV8

#28
October 13, 2022, 09:56:11 AM
That link does not provide any ball joint conversion info.
Carl

BlownMGB-V8

#29
October 13, 2022, 11:08:14 AM
Might be able to upgrade the kingpins with TSL type tapered bearings which include an integral seal.

Jim

Airwreckc

#30
October 13, 2022, 12:53:53 PM
This is the link I was referring to regarding the potential king pin to ball joint conversion:  https://www.mgexp.com/forum/mg-performance-forum.83/spindle-modification-replacing-trunnion.4476089/

The link I previously posted was just comparing the Hoyle to the Frontline kits.

Airwreckc

#31
October 13, 2022, 12:59:37 PM
Jim,

Regarding the TSL bearing conversion, did you ever look into this?  Looks like it could be easier than the ball joint conversation, but I'm not sure where to look for the bearings that could fit (or anything else, for that matter).

MGBV8

#32
October 13, 2022, 04:35:56 PM
Yes, several of us have been following that thread with interest.
Carl

Airwreckc

#34
October 14, 2022, 01:31:19 PM
Jim,

That looks like a great resource.  Thanks much.

mstemp

#35
October 15, 2022, 04:28:39 PM
Bills kit also includes $1300 worth of brakes, hubs etc. so can't really be compared to the Hoyle or Frontline kits. MGOC unit at least has the ball joints for  1200 GBP.

BlownMGB-V8

#36
October 15, 2022, 05:15:12 PM
So the closest bore sizes in the TSL bearings are .750 and .875" with the corresponding kingpin sizes being .780 and .900" sp .030 and .025" undersized respectively. That means that the kingpins would have to be turned to size but also that used pins can be used. So bad and good news both.

Might be possible to go with spacers instead, .875 for .780 (.095 or a .0475" wall) and 1" for .9 (.050" wall). That is probably feasible as well and a slightly less difficult of a machining task but would mean the need for new kingpins which aren't exactly cheap. Should be possible to work with both the OD and height.

Should also be possible to use them for the cross shaft attachment to the control arms. That would require boring the ends of the kingpin for them but I am pretty sure there is enough meat to do that.

Pretty much a permanent fix for the kingpin bushing issue.

Jim

Airwreckc

#37
October 17, 2022, 09:18:08 AM
Great information Jim.   I assume the use of spacers is also preferable as it allows a replaceable wear surface, so instead of replacing kingpins down the road, use can just replace the cheap spacers?

BlownMGB-V8

#38
October 17, 2022, 10:33:52 AM
Eric, maybe spacers between the inner races on the horizontal joints at top and bottom where the A-arms attach but I don't think they would be needed on the kingpin itself, just preload to spec. Guess you could add a spacer sleeve if you wanted to. Any wear should be in the bearings and that should never be an issue. Whether you used the rubber bushings at the top or not would be your choice.

Jim

Airwreckc

#39
October 17, 2022, 11:03:35 AM
Jim,  thanks.  I think this is the route I am going to try.  I ended up getting the Hoyle suspension, so it should make for an interesting combination.

BlownMGB-V8

#40
November 24, 2022, 08:40:56 AM
I just ordered a set of TSL style bearings to modify the kingpins. Sourced them from Lilly Bearings. They are made from hardened 440 stainless which wouldn't have been my first choice but should be acceptable. Part numbers as follows:

S440-R8 2rs: 8 each
S440-R12 2rs: 2 each
S440-R14 2rs: 2 each

Total, $100 though I wouldn't be surprised to get charged something for shipping. This will require some machine work of course, and I will have to turn some bearing cups somewhat similar to those used on the necks of motorcycle frames but the goal is to replace all the bushings including the rubber trunion cushions with tapered bearings.

I have already fitted oil-filled sintered iron bushings to the inner LCA pivots and didn't have any trouble with that but it did require me to drill out the link ends to 1-1/4" and fit grease zerks. Should have that back in service today sometime or tomorrow. The bushings came from McMasterCarr:  

https://www.mcmaster.com/2938T708

This bushing has a 3/16" flange. I had to make inner sleeves to fit.

Jim

Airwreckc

#41
December 01, 2022, 02:03:05 PM
Jim,

That's great news--please keep us posted on how it works out and how the process goes.

BlownMGB-V8

#42
December 01, 2022, 04:24:50 PM
Ni noticeable difference in NVH from the urethane bushings but the suspension and steering is tighter and more precise. Still waiting on the bearings.

Jim

BlownMGB-V8

#43
December 19, 2022, 02:53:07 PM
Well, the bearings came in. And... not as advertised. I now have $100 worth of very nice stainless sealed BALL bearings. I blame the search engine. You know what I mean. No idea what I'll do with those. But at a unit cost of about 8 bucks apiece they'll just go into bench stock. Actually all but the one that goes at the bottom of the kingpin would probably be just fine as ball bearings so I'll have to re-think that.

And back to the original question: Are TSL bearings bearings available in the required sizes? More searching required.

Jim

Airwreckc

#44
December 19, 2022, 03:18:56 PM
Ugh, I hate when that happens.

mgb260

#45
December 20, 2022, 07:14:37 PM
Speedway Motors sells Kingpin needle bearings for early Ford and Chevy kingpins for street rods. Maybe a person could adapt them?

https://inthegaragemedia.com/upgrading-worn-brass-bushings-on-early-ford-kingpin-suspension/

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/ford-versus-chevy-kingpins.50891/

BlownMGB-V8

#46
December 21, 2022, 08:57:10 AM
I'll look into the possibility of using needle bearings. A suitable thrust bearing might be a challenge also. That is an alternative, as is using unsealed Timkens. The attraction of the TSL bearings was the integral seal.

Jim

Airwreckc

#48
January 10, 2023, 04:55:27 PM
Looks like JB Bearings has a minimum quantity for those bearings, although it doesn't say what.  If there are others interested, I'd definitely participate in a group buy.
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