tachometer/speedometer opinion

[IaTR6]

I am to the stage of deciding what to do about my tachometer and speedo. I talked with Morris at West Valley, and the speedometer change to electronic is somewhat expensive. I had thought about a Cable-X or similar, but cannot tell if the Triumph cable would match the GM/Ford output. (tech guy there said probably no, since it is European, and therefore metric). I am thinking it might be easier to go with new gauges that closely match the existing. I have a Tremec T-5 from an '88 Mustang, and I do have the VSS for the trans. I will also be using a Megasquirt, either alone, or with a Ford EDIS. I would value any wisdom you might offer.
Thanks,
Dennis

[DiDueColpi]

My opinion would be electronic.
You already have the VSS and the electronic speedo is far easier to calibrate.
Especially if you plan to play with tire sizes and gear ratios.

Live like you mean it.
Fred

[Moderator]

x2!

[pspeaks]

Dennis, I don't know if you're trying to maintain a stock look or not, but something to think about.  I tried cable, then electric, and finally ended up with a GPS speedometer from Speed-Hut, yes, a little more expensive, but they will give you much more information than just speed.  You can make any changes you want to the drive line and the speedometer couldn't care less.  Given that, I agree with Fred and Curtis, I would go with electric too.


Paul

[Nexxussian]

X2 on what Paul said.

I haven't uses a proper GPS driven Speedometer, yet; just the speed readout on a GPS (Garmin).

I'm planning on GPS drive for my 'B for the very reasons he mentioned.


If you choose to drive it with a VSS, make sure the speedometer you choose is, in fact, easy to adjust.

Some I've found require either gauge removal from the dash, or going under the dash (don't buy one where the adjustment is on the back of the speedometer, less common today, but good to be aware of).

If you decide on a speedometer that doesn't offer GPS drive, and decide you want that, there is at least one company out there that offers a GPS drive unit.

Good luck. ):

[IaTR6]

Thanks for the information everyone, just what I needed! I am going to electronic for both gauges, and will consider a GPS speedo if the VSS turns out to be too much trouble. I need to roll under the car and look at space that is available for the VSS without hitting the transmission tunnel. If there is just a small interference, I can fab. a cover for the protrusion, otherwise, GPS it is!
Thanks again!
Dennis

[Charles]

Dennis, I have 3.4L V6 with T5 from a Camaro. I went with VDO gauges then I find that the tach. does not work. I scope and measure, then talk with VDO support. I am told VDO tach signal needs to ride on 4 plus volt base, I have less than 0.05 volt base. Point I am making is "get the facts, just the facts".

[Moderator]

After over twenty years of service, my VDO digital speedometer died yesterday with a puff of acrid smoke. I've just ordered an Auto Meter (part# 2489) to replace it. I liked the VDO's motorized odometer better than the modern LCD, but otherwise the Auto Meter's styling will match my car better.

[BWA]

I sent my TR6 speedometer and tachometer to Red Line Gauges in California and they put VDO internals in the tachometer and Autometer internals in the speedometer.
I liked what they did as these gauges look close to stock.

[BWA]

OOPS !! I hit the wrong button as I wanted to post some photos.




I tried using an MSD tach interface but it did not work so I went to Dakota Digital and they have a unit that works very well.  The Dakota Digital unit gets its input from the OBD II diagnostic plug.  This Dakota digital unit will work with a 4, 6 or 8 cylinder engine that has an OBDII operating system.

Cheers
Byron

[pspeaks]

Better gauges out there I'm sure, but the only electronic speedometer I tried was a "Shark" from Dolphin.  I had a bit of an issue with electronic interference from who knows where, the speedometer read 5 mph at idle and with the least throttle input read a constant 140, this with the car setting still.  Before I got it figured out I fell in love with GPS.  

Paul

[primaz]

If you are putting a modern V8 into an old car like I did in my Jaguar 3.8s with a modern LS1 V8 you can use this device to retain the old school gauges with the modern engine that assumes a digital gauge.

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=886/category_id=-1/mode=prod/prd886.htm


This takes the electronic and turns it into a rotating cable like the factory gauges.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Looks like a nice bit of kit but at $300 a bit spendy.

Jim

[primaz]

Jim,

I searched pretty extensively and this was the only thing that I could find to keep your classic gauges yet interface with a modern electric engine/etc.  For my Jaguar I wanted to keep that classic stock look. Yes it is a little pricey but before that was available another company said they would create a similar device but actually anticipated the price to be more like $600 so for $299 it is better than putting non classic gauges IMO I did add LED bulbs to the stock gauges and added a blue LED that is manually controlled for an interior light.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Some engine controllers (MS-II for instance) have auxiliary outputs that you can define for PWM and use to drive a small DC motor. In a few cases a stepper drive is also a possibility.

Jim

[MGBV8]

Alan,

What is the diameter of those gauges & where did you get them?

[primaz]

Carl,

My gauges are all stock.  What I did was to replace the Jag bulbs to LED bulbs.  What I also did was install a blue LED strip under the wood upper part of the dash that is tied to the interior lamp toggle switch.

I added that Dakoda digital box that converts the modern LS engine output back to old school rotating cable input so that I can keep all the gauges stock.

[MGBV8]

Stock Jag gauges, okay.  Now, I am curious if they are the same diameter as the '77-'80 MGB gauges.

[maxwedge5281]

i used speedhut gauges in my v8 healey. mi especially like the combo  gps speedometer with gas gauge inset. the fuel level is programmable to match up with the fuel sender in the tank. there are lots of combination colors, dials, fonts, bezels, backlighting, etc.

[ToyBug]

Has anyone installed a gps driven speedo AND nav system?  On my MG Special (see Project Journals), I figure the easeist way out is a gps driven speedo, and wonder if once you have the gps antenna/sending unit, is there a nav system that is intended to be installed in dash, and not stuck on with suction cups (they do suck, however if they were meant to stick, they would be called stiction cups), or velcro, duct tape, etc. What about sourcing a nav system from a wrecking yard? Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Dan Wilson
Colorado Springs

[BlownMGB-V8]

I would like to see someone make a GPS speedo that has a cruise control unit as an accessory to the speedo. Seems like a natural to me. And think about this, if you set it to run a few mph over the posted speed limit the GPS could pick those up and slow the car down as you entered lower speed zones, especially school zones. I notice drivers every day blasting through school zones like they aren't even there. How much safer it would be for the kids if your Cruise automatically dropped your speed when you got to a school zone? Also any regular posted speed reduction would automatically cause you to slow down, meaning a lot less chance of a speeding ticket.

It would not make sense to let it speed you back up of course without driver input, and obviously it would not pick up temporary speed limits like in construction zones, so you couldn't just go on autopilot, but it would be a great benefit. We have the technology, I'm surprised we don't have this already.

Jim

[Moderator]

I like your train of thought, Jim. One thing to remember is a that you're combining two GPS functionalities. A GPS speedo calculates vehicle speed by listening to satellites. To do what you're suggesting, you also need map data.

That's where the temptation for mission creep starts. Here's how I continued the brainstorm. If you're going to license map data, your speedo company might as well build in a navigation feature set...Over time, maps change and improve, so you'd like an update feature. Then you realize that your smartphone can do quite a lot of this very well. Consider the waze app where you get up to date info about speed traps, traffic delays, traffic light cameras, fuel prices along your planned route, etc. - so what you really need is some basic cruise control hardware can "pair" (via Bluetooth?) with a popular smartphone and leverage the latest apps. Mount your phone forward of the steering wheel for the display...

[BlownMGB-V8]

Well, maybe. The cruise needs to be a dedicated piece of hardware of course. The speedo really should also be a dedicated piece since you may want to drive your car without your phone, or you may want to let someone else drive it. Any way you look at it, a hard wired link between the two will always be more reliable than a wireless link.

I'm not sure where the lines are between location data and map data. We assume speed limits are with the map data but might they not just as well be with the location data? What exactly is the difference, and are they actually licensed separately? And because location has to change to get a speed readout, might that require map data as well?

Still, Dolphin or someone who already makes GPS speedos knows the answers to these questions. I would be VERY pleased with a GPS speedo/cruise combo that knew what the speed limit is where the car is located, whether it had any other capabilities or not. In fact, the simpler the better as it is less likely to go obsolete the way my in-car GPS did. I think mapping and trip management is a separate application and is more useful if it isn't mounted in the car permanently.

Jim

[Moderator]

Ooops. I read Jim's post on pg2 before Dan's post on pg1.

Dan, in my opinion aftermarket nav is a sunsetting industry because in new cars nav is becoming ubiquitous even while smartphone based nav has leapfrogged ahead in functionality (and phone displays have gotten larger.)  Can you make an attractive phone mounting panel that will be easy to replace with each of your future new phones?

[primaz]

ToyBug,

For a nav system that blends in you might consider www.visiontechamerica.com  they provide rear view mirrors that have a built in navigation taking up a portion of the screen and I also is a rear view camera.  For GPS other options are DIN navigation systems where the screen moves out of the standard size DIN car audio head unit.  Both of these provide GPS with nobody seeing them when you park the car, etc.  I always think stick on GPS, or stick on phones are so lame looking.  

As far as speedo's I wanted to keep the stock gauges so I spend the extra money for the Dakota Digital box to adapt the new with the old.