7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?

[mgb260]

Rob, There is an article on the web how the guy with the Cobra did his remotes. I'll try to find it and link. He wanted the Girling style vintage racer look. You can buy those cans new in hardware stores. You can buy bulkhead nozzels in various sizes( 5/16" and 3/8" most commonly used) in straight and 90*in nylon or brass. They use nylon or copper or aluminum crush washers.Should have small hole in cap with diaphram. Excellent brake hose at VW parts outlets. Blue silicone or braided cloth covering. Don't use fuel hose it will soften,swell and seep. Moss has the rubber diaphrams for the Girling lids. Here is another picture of hardware store metal reservoirs and bulkhead fitting:

[mgb260]

Rob, Here's the link for making your own " Vintage" reservoirs:  http://www.ffcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247328&highlight=girling+reserviors  Notice the last picture uses threaded AN bulkhead and 90* fitting.

[302GT]

Rob;

I experimented with shortening a reservoir by cutting it and plastic welding it together again. It worked well. I bought a cheap plastic welding kit (about maybe $30), There are also people who do plastic welding professionally. The polypropylene (usually) used in reservoirs is easy to work with. Just be sure that the plastic welding rod you use matches the reservoir plastic.

[302GT]

Another possibility if the reservoir is not too tall is to heat it with a heat gun and squash it. Do this with the reservoir attached to the master cylinder and with the cap in place; and try to keep the heat away from the ends.

As I think about it, maybe most reservoirs are made of polyethylene, not polypropylene. In any case, if plastic welding, be sure to match the welding rod to the plastic.

[mgb260]

Rob, 92-01 Isuzu Trooper 1". Shortest one yet! Probably needs a spacer in front of flange to move back a little.

[rficalora]

I looked at some of those at the salvage yard the other day -- no go.  The reservoir is way too tall (which might be resolvable with Larry's plastic welding suggestion) but the real issue is the diameter of the part that passes through the hole in the pedal box is as wide as the MC casting itself... so once you cut the existing mounting ears off for it to fit in the pedal box, there's no place left to drill new mounting holes.

I do really want to find an answer that doesn't require remoting the reservoirs.  While not the end of the world, I don't like the idea of the hassle of them being lower than the MC's.  I looked at mounting them toward the middle of the firewall & that helps but the hoses would have to dip down pretty low to avoid the hood hinge.

I still think the Trooper ones posted above will fit so I've ordered one via eBay -- price wasn't too bad; comes with the reservoir & the guy measured it for me.  If the measurements are close to accurate it will fit & since it's available in 7/8 & 1" (& 15/16 as a reman. according to rockauto) it should work for more folks than just me if it does fit.  Shipped from CA today so unlikely I'll have it by the weekend but I'm hoping.  I also think the cylinder itself is the same as one used on a few Mitsubishi's just with a different reservoir.  If I'm right on that it won't be hard to find down the road.

Oh, I did find the Cobra site that talks about making the Girling looking reservoirs... http://www.ffcars.com/forums/showthread.php?s=b2ed6a3608621b7dcc617d17d25a14db&t=247328&highlight=girling+reservoirs&page=2.  My local HW stores don't have any bulkhead hose barbs that would work -- what they have doesn't have enough of a shoulder on the nut part to use a crush washer.  But, I did a quick search on summitracing.com for "an to hose barb" and saw several that looked like they'd work if someone decides to go that route.  Even saw some that were 90* instead of just sraight.

[mgb260]

Rob, Sounds like a plan! Which one did you order the 7/8" or 1" ? Maybe the stepped reservoir for Impulse and 7/8" Trooper would fit the 1".

[rficalora]

I ordered the 7/8" one.  It's used on several Isuzu's -- Trooper, Impulse, Pickup.  I'm confident the reservoir will fit the 1" '90 Trooper MC if the 7/8 proves to be too small.  Checked the shipping notice & says it was shipped USPS from CA but is scheduled to arrive on Fri or Sat -- so might actually get to try it out this weekend.

[mgb260]

For those interested in the separate Girling style reservoirs I just found an easy way to make 90* bulkhead fittings . Use a brass 90* 3/8" for 8mm VW hose or 5/16" for 7mm hose, 1/8" NPT to hose barb. Two   3/8" or 10mm crush washers and  two  1/8" NPT Lighting nuts(those thin flat ones found in lighting fixtures and lamps) same thread! Here is a picture of the 90*  I'm talking about:

[rficalora]

Why wouldn't that leak around the threads?

[mgb260]

Rob, The fluid can't get past the crush washers on both sides. The hole would be just big enough for the fitting to go through. You would have to make sure it is flat and clean where the crush washers seat. I would probably use 2 nuts as jam nuts on each side as they are thin. Would work as locknuts also.

[rficalora]

I don't know about that Jim.  May work, but normally crush washers are sandwiched between a flanges that isolate the threads.  Like on a brake caliper, the crush washers seal on the machined surface of the caliper & the banjo & then the other side of the banjo & the banjo bolt head -- so any fluid that gets past the threads is trapped btwn the threads & the inside edge of the washers.  Seems like with nuts, a fluid can still seep past them -- between the threads & the edge of the crush washer.  May not be a problem since the reservoirs aren't under pressure, but I'd want to test it out first.

[mgb260]

I see what you are saying now but, pipe thread has a slight taper plus a little sealant for insurance. I'm after a more vintage look than the AN fittings. I'm thinking about 2 large cans for brakes and 1 small one for the clutch. Painted Hammerite dark gray with original style decals and blue hoses. Girling decals and lid diaphrams available from Moss. I am using 2 separate masters with balance bar similar to this, only remote reservoirs:

[DiDueColpi]

Why not assemble per Jims idea but leave out the washers, then just solder the whole thing together to seal it?
Or just solder on the lower nut to the fitting then the washer would seal.

Cheers
Fred

[rficalora]

That's a great idea Fred.  Would work for a plastic reservoir too if you needed to change the nipple size to fit a different MC which could come in handy!

[rficalora]

Ok, I'm making progress... not good progress, but progress!

Got the Isuzu MC in the mail today -- and the reservoir is perfect!  It has plenty of room & looks like it was made to go there.  And, it fits on a Mitsubishi MC I have too.

Bad news is I didn't notice the output for the front on both of them is on the same side as the clutch MC & land right where the reservoir on the clutch MC is -- there's maybe a tight 1/2" between the brake MC front output & the clutch MC -- I don't even think there's enough room to do a banjo fitting there (even if I could find a metric banjo bolt this weekend).

I do have another clutch MC that looks like it will probably clear (a Tilton 75 series) -- but it's a 1" instead of 3/4.  Clutch slave is a 3/4 unit from a Toyota truck.  What are your thoughts about using the 3/4" clutch master with the 1" slave?  I haven't driven it enough to know for sure, but the first impression was it was a bit hard -- especially toward the end of the travel.  As long as it won't over extend the slave I should be able to use it & if it's too soft trade out the Tilton, right?

What-da-ya-think?

[rficalora]

Just read up on clutch hydraulics -- bigger MC = more pedal effort, not less so that'd be going the wrong way.  Looks like I need to find a MC that'll take the Isuzu reservoir but has the ports on the other side.  I think I'm going to go ahead & set up a remote reservoir solution & find a MC that'll work later.

[mgb260]

Rob, Some masters I looked at on RockAuto and EBay had the Metric banjo fittings, looked pretty compact. I think the Isuzu Impulse ( page 3 of this thread)had the fittings on the other side. Maybe World Parts will trade the Trooper for the Impulse.The Isuzu 15/16" was used on Diesel Troopers 85-86 according to RockAuto. Centric specs show fittings on wrong side also. Good news on the reservoir.  Stock photo10mm banjo fittings pic:

[Bill Young]

Rob, I'm getting in a bit late on this topic, but have you looked at the Wilwood Remote combination master cylinder? Very small and has a very low top mount for the filler. Using a remote resevoir would clear your hood easily. I wound up using a larger model but used a resevoir from a Nissan if I remember correctly that I found in the salvage yard because it had a much lower profile tube mount. Worked for my clutch when the Wilwood resevoir wouldn't clear the fender. http://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderList.aspx?minorname=Compact Remote Combination Master Cylinder
I used a 3/4" bore cylinder on my car, that usually matches up well with stock sized calipers, but you could move up to a 13/16" or a 7/8" if you need more volume.

[rficalora]

Thanks Bill -- I think I have this licked (thanks to all the help & encouragement!).  No pics, but my older son & I bonded @ the local pick-a-part this past weekend.  We found a few 15/16 masters with the right spacing on their inlets for the Isuzu master cylinder reservoir and with the output ports on the "right" side ("right as in correct for my purposes -- opposite side from the clutch master when installed in the MG pedal box).  The one I have initially installed came from a '96 Mazda Protoge.  So far looks like it'll work -- have it cleaned, bench bled, & installed -- just need to bleed the brakes & test it out.  The gromets are, in reality, a little too small for the Isuzu MC to seat all the way down.  It's seating far enough to make a good seal but there's still about 1/8" between the top of the grommet & the bottom of the reservoir -- works but not as tightly seated as it should be & I don't like it because I'm concerned it may vibrate & loosen over time.  For now, I zip tied the reservoir down to the MC & that should be good enough to confirm the 15/16 size.

Assuming the size is good, I also grabbed a 15/16 MC from a '89 Camry.  Also has the right inlet spacing & has the right size grommets.  It also has a triangular shaped flange that I think will work a little better than the Protoge one.  I should have installed it first, but I didn't notice the difference in grommet size till I'd already modified/installed the Protoge one.

In addition, Graham identified a 15/16 MC from a '80 Toyota Pickup, 1 Ton that looks promising too -- it has a round reservoir for the front inlet & that reservoir serves as a remote to the back port.  Next time I'm at the pick-a-part I'm going to check that one out to see if it's short enough & if the reservoir is low enough.  If so, that would make the best option since it wouldn't require mixing/matching parts from multiple MC's.

[mgb260]

Wow, You've been busy!

[rficalora]

Bled the brakes this evening -- very firm pedal... If I get home from work early enought tomorrow I'll be able to try it out.

[mgb260]

Rob,  think you'll like it! 15/16" should be just right. Just curious, do you have braided stainless flex lines? They will take up some pedal travel also.

[rficalora]

Yes, braided flex lines.

[kstevusa]

Rob, Great progress!  look forward to seeing the car and you in little over 2 months.
 SAFETY FASTER!