7/8 or 1" Brake master for non-servo pedal box?

[mgb260]

1998 Chevy Tracker ABS is 15/16" and very short with reservoir forward.

[mgb260]

deleted

[rficalora]

Quote: how about threading the part the reservoir goes on with pipe thread and using a reducer bushing with a small nipple to run hose to remote reservoir

That's an interesting idea.  I don't really want to do a remote reservoir, but seems like I should be able to use that idea to do a reducer that would let me use the Tilton reservoir.  Any ideas on how to do that w/o a lathe?  I might get lucky & find a reducer that'll fit, but with the odd ~1 11/16" size, that's unlikely.

[mgb260]

1 5/8" pipe threading die  would probably work. Female side to master, male fitting slightly larger than Tilton size with threads sanded off. Custom, but should work. Is the Tilton reservoir shorter? It still might be back too far. EDIT: Pipe thread jumps from 1 1/2" to 2" so won't work.

[rficalora]

That Tracker one looks interesting.  I've been searching RockAuto & found a couple of others that might work too.  Most promising is this one if the reservoir will flip around...

2004 FORD ESCAPE 3.0L, 1" bore

[rficalora]

Jim, if I can do a reducer, I think the Tilton 75 reservoir might work; would need to do some measurements.  It would basically go straight up from the hole in the MC...

[mgb260]

I think you can make the Honda one work. I have seen pipe reducers that bell up to smaller sizes.Though the height would go up also. There are a lot of possibilities, you may have to do some junkyard shopping. The side to side mounting might be tight to the clutch cylinder and might have to be ground down on that side.

[mgb260]

1998-2005 VW Beetle,Golf,Jetta 15/16" Non ESP (ABS). 12MM x 1.0 fittings.

[rficalora]

I saw that same one -- 2002 (and probably other years) Beetle.  I haven't looked at the pedal box yet to see if a horizontal flange will work.  This would be a lot easier if it was before paint.

[mgb260]

Actually the VW mounting is angled  and close to the master and should fit. Another idea for the Honda reservoir, angled on Isuzu Trooper,Amiga,Rodeo,93-97 Nissan Altima and 85-90 Mitsubishi  clutch masters. Would have to be turned. I know you don't want remote but mid 80's Nissan have this fitting also.

[mgb260]

Picture of VW mounting flange:

[mgb260]

Another idea to reduce the Honda down, press a piece of DOM tubing inside, notched for divider?

[rficalora]

The honda one only came in 7/8 -- I'm still holding out for a 15/16.

I played with the Acura one I'd bought; no way it's going to fit unless I break down & go w/a remote reservoir.  Any ideas on what to use for a cap on the MC side?  Would need to put two nipples in it to feed the front/back sections of the MC since it has the divider in the hole.

I also found a MC that I'm pretty sure would work from an Isuzu Trooper.  Comes in 7/8 & 15/16" versions & an eBay seller measured his for me (7/8 version).  Haven't found anyone who sells the 15/16" version -- even the Isuzu dealer in town (only one left in Hou) says they can't get it??  Are they going out of business?


Going to see what I can find in the way of reservoirs in the VW line but fastest answer sounds like figuring out a way to remote feed the Acura one I have -- plus that'd be a way to test a 15/16" before spending any more money on this.  So that's probaby where I need to keep my attn.

[mgb260]

Rob, You can check out some of the clutch masters for remote cap. You would only need one nipple if you could press a notched pipe(for divider) sticking up about 1" for a smaller diameter. Then maybe those angled clutch ones I show above might even fit. What's the I.D. on the Acura  opening for the reservoir? Go on Ebay  Motors; parts and accessories, type in Ford, Dodge, Nissan etc. clutch master cylinder,shows hundreds. Lots are remote or have small or angled reservoirs.

[rficalora]

I'll have to do some looking for a remote cap that'll fit.  At almost 1 3/4", the opening is big & there is only about 1/2" above the Acura MC opening & the firewall overhang so not really room for a reducer.  I'll probably have to look @ truck clutch masters to find a cap.

[mgb260]

Rob, Some Factory 5 Cobra guys use your idea of 2 separate lines and use 1993-98 Nissan Quest/Mercury Villager mini-van remote reservoir which has 2 chambers and one fill cap. You will still have to find a cap to fit the master and put 2 nipples in. How about a windshield washer cap, or industrial type cap?

[socorob]

Look at the cap for a 1976 nissan f10 master cylinder on rock auto. http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=309203
This is the master i have on my car. If you think those caps may work, I can probably get a chance to measure them this weekend. I used the remote reservoir from an 80s mitsbishi galant.

[mgb260]

Robbie, I think the Acura is larger, Rob said 1 11/16". Both ports are D shaped in one hole. I think as long as it's not flush on the divider  you would only need one nipple to the remote reservoir.You never know, be worth a look.

[rficalora]

Update -- didn't find a way to make the Acura MC work with a remote reservoir... but, did find a company called "World Trading" while searching on eBay for ones that looked like they might work... they had hundreds listed.  Realized they were located close to where I live so I called them up -- net, they let me come down & rummage through what they had -- guy's name was Glenn; couldn't have been more helpful!

Net, I didn't find any 15/16" that would fit w/o doing a remote reservoir and also modifying the mounting hole locations... but, I did find a 7/8" one that needs remote reservoir but it lined up with the existing vertical flange holes.  They sold it to me for $25.  I've mounted it except the reservoir; will put that on & try it out on Monday.  That way I can test the feel beore I modify the pedal box only to potentially have to modify it again (remember it's already painted).

I think the 7/8' will prove to be too soft still, but am checking it anyway for two reasons -- 1st it fits w/o modifying the box... 2nd, I realized my bias valve was set all the way open.  I'm not sure, but it seems logical that with the rear bias down, it should direct more fluid to the front & less to the rear?

Also, a question... the 7/8 MC I got has two front outputs... presumaly L & R.  Is there any benefit to using both in terms of fluid volume going to the calipers?  The MG MC only had 1 so i have a single line to the bias valve to a residual pressure valve & then T out to 2 lines after that.  Wondering if using both front MC outputs would help any.

[mgb260]

Rob, The bias (proportioning) valve will provide more or less to the rear,front is a separate circuit. I have seen dual ports front and back,probably for different chassis fit. Sometimes for bleeders. I don't see any reason you can't tee off there instead of a different tee. You would need 2 residual valves then though.I found the 85-89 Isuzu Impulse master has the reservoir you like with 7/8" master. It looks  like you could use that reservoir with the 90 Trooper master that comes in 1". if you need a bigger master.Here's a picture from World Wide:

[mgb260]

Another idea for the Acura master, this angled clutch (Isuzu Trooper)cylinder looks like large base,with nipple in lid to remote reservoir.

[rficalora]

Ok, this is getting frustrating...  I spent 1/2 the day at a pick a part... That clutch reservoir is too small for the acura mc.  And with only about 2" between  the MC and the hood I haven't found a remote reservoir that can be mounted higher than the MC...  Must be a way but I don't see how.  I'm waiting on measurements on 2 more masters.  If they don't fit I'm down to having the remote output below the mc input or resorting to fabricating a new pedal box to hold dual Wilwood or Tiltons and a bias bar.  I'm starting to think that'd be faster and cheaper!

[DiDueColpi]

Rob,

It is possible to mount the reservior lower than the master. It's not the perfect solution but it works.
The trick is in bleeding the system. You need to get all the air out between the master and the reservoir.
The easiest way to accomplish that is to back bleed the system. You will need a pressure bleeder connected to one of your brakes. The pressure bleeder will feed fluid backwards through your master and fill the reservoir. This will take any air between the two with it. Then its just a matter of always keeping the reservoir full to avoid an air lock.
Back bleeding the entire system is a good idea. The air in the system wants to go uphill. Conventional bleeding tries to make it go downhill. With this method the air gets to go where it wants to and you can easily get all of it out.
A dirt cheap pressure bleeder can be made from a garden sprayer and a few hardware store fittings.
It also takes all the bad words out of clutch bleeding.

Hope that helps.
Cheers
Fred

[mgb260]

Fred, Good info. I usually use a extra master cylinder cap with tire valve installed and bicycle pump with guage,pump in 20psi. I don't reverse bleed, but use Speed Bleeders. The best way  to bleed your brakes! Rob, can you mount the reservoir in the center of your firewall close to the hood,the bottom of the reservoir should be higher than the master cylinder bore there. Fred is right, if you get all the air out it can be lower. I wish I was closer to help you out.  Here is a picture of a Cobra with lower reservoirs along fender also David Townsend on this board mounted his there too.

[rficalora]

Thanks guys -- good to know I can have the reservoir outlets below the MC if needed.  I can certainly have the remote reservoirs be mounted toward the middle which is a little higher.

How do you figure the Cobra builder sealed the bottom of those reservoirs?  Is there a sealant that is resistant to brake fluid?  I thought about doing something similar with a reservoir I found @ the salvage yard.  It was deisgned with a hole in the bottom through which a hollow bolt passed & screwed into a threaded MC inlet.  To use it as a remote reservior I'd have to replace that bolt with some sort of fastener that I could then connect to the MC.  I looked at a bunch of barb fittings for poly tubing etc. at the hardware store, but none had enough surface area at the "nut" part to seal against a washer.  Wondering what fittings this Cobra used?

Similarly, is there someplace that you can order the MC rubber inlet seals?  I found a reservoir that would work great except the barbs on it were too big for the barb holes on the MC that fit's the MG.  If I could find the MC inlet gromets for the same size MC hole (grommet outside diameter) but bigger barb hole (grommet inside diameter)?  The OD of the grommets are formed to match a machined depression...

Anyway, you sort of get how my yesterday went.

Most of the above is for my learning... I am still thinking one of the following will be what I end up with:
* regular remote mount reservoir
* The Isuzu MC -- measurements say it should fit
* An '89 jag XJ6 MC (looks promising; 15/16"; waiting for some measurements)